Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3234

Ill share a few pictures of what I have seen. Strains does not matter in the black dogs. The same thing happens with Dobies, Rotts and Min Pinchers. It is the gene in the black and tan colored dogs.
I cull them if I have them now.

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Tan
GRNTCH PKC CH Coble & Stocking's Troubadour (Troubles) or (Trubs)

NTCH PKCSilverCH Coble & Stocking's Swamp Rat Poison

NTCH Coble & Stocking's Stinger (GRNTCH Troubles x GRNTCH Fancy)

NTCH ACHA WReserve Team Troubles Trippy
Black & Tan

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Lumpkin, Ga
Posts: 8757

quote:

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Originally posted by Lee Stocking
Ill share a few pictures of what I have seen. Strains does not matter in the black dogs. The same thing happens with Dobies, Rotts and Min Pinchers. It is the gene in the black and tan colored dogs.
I cull them if I have them now.

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Aww.. that's too purdy to cull! J/k

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Johnny Williams

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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: south carolina
Posts: 2635

quote:

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Originally posted by s/s

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Rip-Roarin' Redbone Kennel
It's gotta be RED!!!!
When God knew I needed a friend, He sent my dogs, when He needed a coondog, He took them back.
http://www.myspace.com/janetandbarrymorris

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: indiana
Posts: 351

LMAO!!

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: 1322 Ginger Trl Manning, S.C. 29102
Posts: 3002

quote:

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Originally posted by riproarinkennel
ACTUALLY ... IT WAS FOR SOMEONE WHO SENT ME A PM ABOUT BLACK-N-TAN REDBONES.

DOES THE OFFER STILL STAND ? LOL.

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GRNTCH GRCH FIRST CLASS SMOKIN' JETS-"SON"
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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: munfordville ky.
Posts: 1166

i'm gona bust a few bubbles on this subjuct. the truth about these dogs. i know from the 70's & i garrentee before that. alot of people bred red & b&t, walkers & blueticks & any other cross they wanted to make or even the old sheperd down the road. it wasnt uncommon to hear of someone breed a little bird dog in to improove hound nose. if you got a good dog out of what ever, you could & dont let nobody fool ya. go to any dog trade & get what ever papers fit that dog or dog to fit your papers !! this went on all over the country !!

i remember when i was a kid. they had a trade day in litchfield ky & there would be HUNDEREDS of dogs every wendsday. dog traders would be there from all over & have books of dog papers. buy a dog & thumb through & get what ever kind of paper you want !!

this is a dirty little secret that nobody wants to talk about from the GOOD OL DAYS !! if you wasnt anound then, you aint got a clue how much this went on !! & if you was around then we just dont publicize it or act like it didnt happen !!

yes there was reputable breeders but when pups & dogs left & wound up on the trade block you didnt have a clue if you was getting the right papers or not. hell i'v seen nite champion papers for sale back then. ol fido could get killed by a car or just up & die but his papers lived on !!

yep i was a poor kid that its all i could do was scrap up 5 or 10 or 20 dollors & hitch a ride to litchfield to get me a coondog. this was common practice all over the country.

NOW YOU KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT WHY YOU SEE OFF COLORED PUPS FROM TIME TO TIME !!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Lumpkin, Ga
Posts: 8757

Hush man! We got live in a dream world you know!

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Johnny Williams

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 12

Does anyone know if Janet had the DNA test done on her pups? Very curious about what she found out.

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Registered: Apr 2008
Location: havana florida
Posts: 1092

H was born the same color as he is now

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Travelers rest S.C
Posts: 887

years ago i remember my uncle use to tell me he had a red bitch an no matter what red male he bred her to she always threw atleast 1 b&t pup. i seen 1 in a litter he had, also new a fella that had a plott bitch that threw 2 pertty redbone pups. just makes you wonder what does your hound really go back to?????

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: sheridan
Posts: 4

My full blooded redbones gave birth to 2 beautiful black and tans. Is this normal ?

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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

quote:

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Originally posted by clhowe
My full blooded redbones gave birth to 2 beautiful black and tans. Is this normal ?

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Home of where the Heaviest Fireball bred hounds there are come from.
And the closest ones alive to GrNtCh Oklahoma Twister (the #1 reproducing son of Fireball) and GrNtCh Yellow River Rocky (the #2 reproducing son of Fireball) . Thanks to alot of help from my friends.

Handler of:
NtCh GrCh "PR" Dan Langston (Has 2 wins towards GrNtCh in the hunts) ( 10yr old owner asked for me to bring him back to his home) (wouldn't sell) (Ch D8 Dozer (bear hound from all coondog stock, out of my breeding) x NtCh Music/ Kitty) (33% Fireball thru heavy line breeding the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded hound alive, who is hunt titled )

Home of:
'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady (GrNtCh. Barnyard Horse Harry x GrCh Daisy (was the highest Fireball blooded female alive)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Toes ('PR' Atomic Fireball's Fast Talker (nephew to Bookem Danno) x 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Dixie (NtCh GrCh. 'PR' Dan Langston x 'PR'Harry Lady)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Two Toes (NtCh GrCh Dan Langston x Atomic Fireball's Toes
Didn't have the deep hunt style I like but is a solid coonhound. Been treeing her own since her second night in the woods at 8 months old.

Former home of:
(Qualified for the 2011 World Hunt) NtCh. 'PR'Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty RIP (NtCh.Twister's Musical Red Huey x NtCh. Sawblade Red Reckon) RIP

GrNtCh Fireball's Jackpot Jackie, highest placing Redbone female ever, in the UKC World Hunt . RIP

GrCh. 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Daisy RIP (Was the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded female in the world at the time) (Qualified for the 2010 World Show).

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Red River (Daisy x Brown's Oklahoma Twister) RIP (heatstroke)

Ch. D-8 Dozer (Was the Highest blooded GrNtCh Fireball blooded male in the world until I had the GrNtCh Twister pups from here) Was sent to be bear hunted because of his size and me being disabled. RIP

First and only sons of the Old GrNtCh #7 Historical Reproducer Brown's Okl. Twister (the #1 Producing Son of Fireball) in 15 years..


http://atomicfireballkennels.webs.com/
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=341228
Steve Bell

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: sheridan
Posts: 4

Thank you for your time. Right now the a very black and tan. But they're only 6 days old.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1700

Just what I have seen, read and heard so far, tells me this.
The real dark brown with black on the ears and tail, black markings in different areas etc.., usually turn into dark red dogs that will have some "acceptable" black on them.
The coal black ones with tan markings will be high tan black and tans for ever.
I have a litter now, with some that are red, some that are real dark red with black markings. I think they will all be fine. They are almost 3 weeks old and getting more red all the time. None of mine have any white on them anywhere. They are from PR dogs for many generations.
I've seen throw backs to the old days before, and I know others have too. It happens with Redbones. All Redbones go back to grade dogs years ago. In the early 1900's Blacktans and Redbones were called saddlebacks and from the saddlebacks they selectively bred to make the 2 breeds we have today. Also all up through the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's grade dogs were still common place and those were used to produce some of what we have today. Black is a dominant color, so its no wonder the black genes have been able to hang in there and pop up from time to time. I expect it will always show up especially with dark red being such a popular color with many folks. I figure if breeders keep breeding the real dark red ones, the black will be more likely to keep showing up.
Anyway that is what 25+ years of hunting redbones has taught me. I've learned there is no use in worrying about it.
With the new cross bred catagory over at $kc, there may be a place for those throw backs.

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NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
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NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

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Registered: Dec 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 365

So if you breed two pr redbones and get a black and tan pup. Can you UKC register that pup as a redbone? Or as a BnT? Or not at all?

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Redbones
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Registered: Oct 2007
Location: Medford, WI
Posts: 3312

quote:

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Originally posted by tja51horns
So if you breed two pr redbones and get a black and tan pup. Can you UKC register that pup as a redbone? Or as a BnT? Or not at all?

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: sheridan
Posts: 4

I read that they will only allow all red and red with some white on the chest and feet. But not the black and tans at all. I dont know how to put pics on here or I would post pics of my week old black and tan eedbones. They are beautiful.

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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

quote:

---

Originally posted by tja51horns
So if you breed two pr redbones and get a black and tan pup. Can you UKC register that pup as a redbone? Or as a BnT? Or not at all?

---

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Ky
Posts: 347

i want one

I want a female pup... b&t colored redbone!! My daughter's teacher said she could have it DNA profiled..

And I want it for a project breeder..

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: sheridan
Posts: 4

I have a one week old female b&t female pup. She is not registered but both parents are 100% full blooded redbones.

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Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Northern Tier
Posts: 200

It occurs because of "recessive black." It doesn't necessarily have to come from a black and tan. The "recessive black" (in this case with a tan trim modifier) can come from any dog carrying this recessive. Pups are only black and tan (between two redbones) when BOTH parents carry the recessive gene. I have read that a certain redbone stud throws black and tans---can't happen because both parents must carry the recessive.

No big deal, it's just a color---just shows the breed has not been purged of unwanted recessives...hard to do when people are mixing in other breeds here and there. In this case it's easy because it's visual and the dog does not meet breed standards. Therefore it cannot be registered.

GOOGLE it and read for yourself.

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Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Ky
Posts: 347

But the question is what other qualities are carried by the recessive gene.. and what happens when you breed TO the recessive gene side with a male of the same breed that doesn't carry it.. also when and where did it come from.

We researched a breeding of partridge that threw albino offspring for 5 years.. there is something in my mind telling me they are something worth looking into!!

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2844

Re: this is out of two redbones . pr dogs

quote:

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Originally posted by Tim Trone


H was born the same color as he is now

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Proof is in the color I was wondering how those redbones could tree a coon. Ole Tennessee Lead put the walkers on the map, I wonder what BNT put the coon treeing ability into the redbones

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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

However, according to UKC unless they meet breed standards they can't be registered. It has nothing to do with DNA which is going to be right chances are. It has everything to do with appearance.
How many have seen a Chocolate color Bluetick with 3 gens of nothing but blue colored parents? It happens and often becuase there is some single parent male or female overlapping in both lines. Some are breed throw backs, some are old blood throwbacks, but it can even be a single parent overlapping throwback. What about those grey bones? Same sort of thing.

__________________
Home of where the Heaviest Fireball bred hounds there are come from.
And the closest ones alive to GrNtCh Oklahoma Twister (the #1 reproducing son of Fireball) and GrNtCh Yellow River Rocky (the #2 reproducing son of Fireball) . Thanks to alot of help from my friends.

Handler of:
NtCh GrCh "PR" Dan Langston (Has 2 wins towards GrNtCh in the hunts) ( 10yr old owner asked for me to bring him back to his home) (wouldn't sell) (Ch D8 Dozer (bear hound from all coondog stock, out of my breeding) x NtCh Music/ Kitty) (33% Fireball thru heavy line breeding the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded hound alive, who is hunt titled )

Home of:
'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady (GrNtCh. Barnyard Horse Harry x GrCh Daisy (was the highest Fireball blooded female alive)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Toes ('PR' Atomic Fireball's Fast Talker (nephew to Bookem Danno) x 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Dixie (NtCh GrCh. 'PR' Dan Langston x 'PR'Harry Lady)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Two Toes (NtCh GrCh Dan Langston x Atomic Fireball's Toes
Didn't have the deep hunt style I like but is a solid coonhound. Been treeing her own since her second night in the woods at 8 months old.

Former home of:
(Qualified for the 2011 World Hunt) NtCh. 'PR'Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty RIP (NtCh.Twister's Musical Red Huey x NtCh. Sawblade Red Reckon) RIP

GrNtCh Fireball's Jackpot Jackie, highest placing Redbone female ever, in the UKC World Hunt . RIP

GrCh. 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Daisy RIP (Was the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded female in the world at the time) (Qualified for the 2010 World Show).

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Red River (Daisy x Brown's Oklahoma Twister) RIP (heatstroke)

Ch. D-8 Dozer (Was the Highest blooded GrNtCh Fireball blooded male in the world until I had the GrNtCh Twister pups from here) Was sent to be bear hunted because of his size and me being disabled. RIP

First and only sons of the Old GrNtCh #7 Historical Reproducer Brown's Okl. Twister (the #1 Producing Son of Fireball) in 15 years..


http://atomicfireballkennels.webs.com/
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=341228
Steve Bell

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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

THERE WERE SOME POPULAR BLACK AND TAN STUDS THAT WERE USED BY ONE OR TWO OR THREE BIG TIME RED BREEDERS THAT INJECTED SOME OF THE BLK INTO SOME REDS FOR WHAT EVER REASON ONLY THEY KNOW

THAT IS LIKE I READ ABOUT TIMBER CHOPPER BEING SUCH A DOMINATE REPRODUCER THAT GUYS BRED EVEN WALKERS TO HIM

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HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

Last edited by oklared on 12-02-2013 at 06:49 PM

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