Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Pennsylvania
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I know there are a lot of hardcore coon hunters on this site and we all know there are a ton of know it all's when it comes to training a dog, handling a dog, knowing what a "real coon dog" is. There are also people on here that believe it doesn't take a special dog to make it to the final cast of a world hunt. Shoot, apparently even me too dogs and slick treeing idiots can make it and even win it.

So lets see a show of hands from all you guys that have made it into the final cast of a world hunt (in any kennel club). To make it easier and so more people can raise their hand we can even include the big hunts like Autumn Oaks, etc.

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Al Tarantella

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Al, you seem to think you can't know what it takes to get there if you haven't been there. Sorry, but I don't see it that way.

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I'm not really saying that Jim at least I don't think. There are and were plenty of great hounds that for one reason or another didn't advance that far or maybe were never even entered in a hunt. But for guys (not you in particular) to say the dogs that do make it that far aren't anything special is just absurd. They are special and although we all agree luck plays a big part it will only take you so far.

I'm by NO MEANS saying dogs that make it to the final cast of a world hunt are perfect just so there's no confusion.

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Al Tarantella

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Just imagine if you or maybe even a good friend of your put in the work and got a few breaks and was lucky enough to advance to the final cast of a world hunt maybe even win the hunt and then get on here and read posts that your dog is a me too dog or a slick treeing dog. To me it would be a kick in the teeth ESPECIALLY from someone that's never been there themselves nor ever hunted with your dog.

I'll say this, the "experts" on this board sure can learn a lot about a cast and the dogs by reading a play by play.

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Al Tarantella

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Jim I think he's talking about the bashers. I also think in some of their minds they really believe they could beat most dogs out there today. Then they say they don't comp hunt. Yet they down a dog that's made the final of the world hunt. I say they Prolly couldn't win a buddy hunt at my coon club

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Michael Ghorley

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Jim I think he's talking about the bashers. I also think in some of their minds they really believe they could beat most dogs out there today. Then they say they don't comp hunt. Yet they down a dog that's made the final of the world hunt. I say they Prolly couldn't win a buddy hunt at my coon club

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Al Tarantella

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quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Jim I think he's talking about the bashers. I also think in some of their minds they really believe they could beat most dogs out there today. Then they say they don't comp hunt. Yet they down a dog that's made the final of the world hunt. I say they Prolly couldn't win a buddy hunt at my coon club

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AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
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Put any 10 hunters togeather and ask for their definition of a "real coondog" and you will get a description of 10 different dogs, and about 8 of those definitions wont be of a dog that is well suited to the competition format.
Most hunters claim to want an honest strike dog, but in the real world those dogs are usually strikeing for 50 or a quarter. I hear all the time about these 90% accurate dogs that everyone claims to have, but along with accurate comes slow to lock down and that doesnt get it done in the hunts.
Are the world champion dogs special? you bet they are, they are dogs that have the skills required to win with the scorecard we use.

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
Put any 10 hunters togeather and ask for their definition of a "real coondog" and you will get a description of 10 different dogs, and about 8 of those definitions wont be of a dog that is well suited to the competition format.
Most hunters claim to want an honest strike dog, but in the real world those dogs are usually strikeing for 50 or a quarter. I hear all the time about these 90% accurate dogs that everyone claims to have, but along with accurate comes slow to lock down and that doesnt get it done in the hunts.
Are the world champion dogs special? you bet they are, they are dogs that have the skills required to win with the scorecard we use.

---

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Al Tarantella

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So which are you Al?A hardcore hunter or a know it all? Last I checked we are all intitled to an opinion on here.We all watch the play by play to see how the dogs that rose to the top perform.Some are impressed and some are not.I think they must be above average to make it that far but unless I see it with my own eyes I won't say.

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Al,

First off, I'm no expert on what it takes to win a world hunt. In reality I'm a pleasure hunter that goes to a competition hunt when I have one that I think will win. Have not been going to competition hunts very often for a while, if for no other reason that I simply have not had the time or the inclination to go.

However, over the course of the past 30+ years of hunting and going to competition hunts I have indeed hunted with many, many World Champions...not in just competition hunts, but on week night hunts and just out pleasure hunting. I've hunted with some really "well known" stud dogs. I've huntd with dogs that won the Winter Classic, dogs that have won the Grand American,Autumn Oaks, and multiple super stakes, have judged world hunts, nationals, state PKC races etc, etc, etc. Personally, I've not made it a habit to enter in many of the hunts that I have mentioned, but have had a dog in the final four of a large national hunt from another registry several years ago.

I've hunted with, and judged some awful nice dogs in all of those "winners", and I've hunted with some that I probably would not dump feed too for more than a few days before they went to live with someone else. So I'm not sure that given your first post, I am qualified to even comment your post, let alone "raise my hand".

What I have observed in my travels and after hunting with multiple different "big winners" is this....

Everyone thinks they want the kind of dog that will win "the big one". However, most people don't have a clue what it REALLY takes, and even fewer are prepared to do the work that is required to prepare to get to the big show. The dogs that I've seen that were constantly in the winners circle were not "super dogs". The did not have super powers like X Ray vision or some kind of ESP that allowed them to locate coon by just "knowing" where they are at. What they did have in common was that they were consistent. They did the same thing each time they were turned loose.. Most were not overly loud, and many of them were not overpowering tree dogs. Each and every one of them were the type of dog that had one thing, and one thing only on their mind...getting under a coon. Notice that I did not say getting treed....I said getting under a coon. Most had no concern for what another dog was doing.....they were not independent to a fault, but seldom would they take second tree to another dog more than once in a cast or on a Wednesday night pleasure hunt.

Every one of them had one thing in common though...when they won, they won in conditions that suited them the best. For example, if they won in thin coon, chances are that they were not outstanding dogs in thick coon populations. If they won in thick coon populations, they didn't look as well if they had to cover lots of ground to even find a coon.

The bottom line is that I am not qualified to choose what anybody else but me wants to follow or feed. If you like "slick treeing me too" dogs, and you can do well with those.....have at it.... There are indeed dogs that I've seen win by covering everything that barked at a tree without regard to what was in the tree....then by slipping off and actually treeing one on their own. I've seen dogs win by never taking "risk" and thinking on their own. I don't have any way of knowing what this years UKC World Champion is...never hunted with him and wasn't on the cast.....

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quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer

Are the world champion dogs special? you bet they are, they are dogs that have the skills required to win with the scorecard we use. [/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jackson87
So which are you Al?A hardcore hunter or a know it all? Last I checked we are all intitled to an opinion on here.We all watch the play by play to see how the dogs that rose to the top perform.Some are impressed and some are not.I think they must be above average to make it that far but unless I see it with my own eyes I won't say.

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Al Tarantella

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quote:

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Originally posted by buck brush
you are right here sir. most of the people that are calling these winners slick treeing dogs and ME TOO dogs do not know what a true compation dog is, they think they do, you look at all the winning these dogs have done in the past.
they talk about me too dogs i gess they think a dog should not cover another dog, well it was said the John dog was me tooing, and a person said he would be alone under a coon and he did that,
i give congrats to the winners, no mater what there dogs did, at least it was done fair. and i don't even like that breed ( not cutting anyone down for what they hunt ) it is just not my choose of breed BUT THEY ROCKED THIS PAST WEEKEND.

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Al Tarantella

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oak Ridge
The dogs that I've seen that were constantly in the winners circle were not "super dogs". The did not have super powers like X Ray vision or some kind of ESP that allowed them to locate coon by just "knowing" where they are at. What they did have in common was that they were consistent. They did the same thing each time they were turned loose.. Most were not overly loud, and many of them were not overpowering tree dogs. Each and every one of them were the type of dog that had one thing, and one thing only on their mind...getting under a coon. Notice that I did not say getting treed....I said getting under a coon. Most had no concern for what another dog was doing.....they were not independent to a fault, but seldom would they take second tree to another dog more than once in a cast or on a Wednesday night pleasure hunt.

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I read your post a couple times.Just figured I ask where you stood in this mix up.I don't ever plan on seeing a world champ go but I'm always ready and waiting to be impressed with some dog power.I like seeing good dog work no matter the breed or who owns it.Ill never forget the first compitition hunt I spectated.I was speachless and curious as to what all them dogs were running....Sure didnt see no coons in 2 them hours

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Al,

First off, I'm no expert on what it takes to win a world hunt. In reality I'm a pleasure hunter that goes to a competition hunt when I have one that I think will win. Have not been going to competition hunts very often for a while, if for no other reason that I simply have not had the time or the inclination to go.

However, over the course of the past 30+ years of hunting and going to competition hunts I have indeed hunted with many, many World Champions...not in just competition hunts, but on week night hunts and just out pleasure hunting. I've hunted with some really "well known" stud dogs. I've huntd with dogs that won the Winter Classic, dogs that have won the Grand American,Autumn Oaks, and multiple super stakes, have judged world hunts, nationals, state PKC races etc, etc, etc. Personally, I've not made it a habit to enter in many of the hunts that I have mentioned, but have had a dog in the final four of a large national hunt from another registry several years ago.

I've hunted with, and judged some awful nice dogs in all of those "winners", and I've hunted with some that I probably would not dump feed too for more than a few days before they went to live with someone else. So I'm not sure that given your first post, I am qualified to even comment your post, let alone "raise my hand".

What I have observed in my travels and after hunting with multiple different "big winners" is this....

Everyone thinks they want the kind of dog that will win "the big one". However, most people don't have a clue what it REALLY takes, and even fewer are prepared to do the work that is required to prepare to get to the big show. The dogs that I've seen that were constantly in the winners circle were not "super dogs". The did not have super powers like X Ray vision or some kind of ESP that allowed them to locate coon by just "knowing" where they are at. What they did have in common was that they were consistent. They did the same thing each time they were turned loose.. Most were not overly loud, and many of them were not overpowering tree dogs. Each and every one of them were the type of dog that had one thing, and one thing only on their mind...getting under a coon. Notice that I did not say getting treed....I said getting under a coon. Most had no concern for what another dog was doing.....they were not independent to a fault, but seldom would they take second tree to another dog more than once in a cast or on a Wednesday night pleasure hunt.

Every one of them had one thing in common though...when they won, they won in conditions that suited them the best. For example, if they won in thin coon, chances are that they were not outstanding dogs in thick coon populations. If they won in thick coon populations, they didn't look as well if they had to cover lots of ground to even find a coon.

The bottom line is that I am not qualified to choose what anybody else but me wants to follow or feed. If you like "slick treeing me too" dogs, and you can do well with those.....have at it.... There are indeed dogs that I've seen win by covering everything that barked at a tree without regard to what was in the tree....then by slipping off and actually treeing one on their own. I've seen dogs win by never taking "risk" and thinking on their own. I don't have any way of knowing what this years UKC World Champion is...never hunted with him and wasn't on the cast.....

---

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Al Tarantella

Last edited by perry co cooner on 09-25-2013 at 03:13 AM

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it takes a lot of hard work to push a dog in the big hunts it takes a realy good dog to stay in the top consitlently there is a reason some names pop up more because thay got a coondog and know what to do with it

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odg

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quote:

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Originally posted by odg
it takes a lot of hard work to push a dog in the big hunts it takes a realy good dog to stay in the top consitlently there is a reason some names pop up more because thay got a coondog and know what to do with it

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Al Tarantella

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jackson87
I read your post a couple times.Just figured I ask where you stood in this mix up.I don't ever plan on seeing a world champ go but I'm always ready and waiting to be impressed with some dog power.I like seeing good dog work no matter the breed or who owns it.Ill never forget the first compitition hunt I spectated.I was speachless and curious as to what all them dogs were running....Sure didnt see no coons in 2 them hours

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Al Tarantella

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quote:

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Originally posted by perry co cooner
Joe- the only thing on your post from the other thread that I disagreed with was where you said "the winner of a world hunt only means that they simply won 5 casts in a row.........THAT'S ALL". I'm paraphrasing of course. Winning 5 casts in a row anywhere is an accomplishment to be proud of and I'm certainly not taking anything away from it. Winning 5 casts in a row on the biggest stage in coon hunting, in my opinion is something entirely different.

I've never hunted with a world champ and I'm sure I never will. My post simply asked for those that have "been there" stand and be recognized or "raise their hand" so to speak.

Out of the hundreds of members on this message board there's only a handful that can say "I've been there and done that".

I could care less if the hunt is in thick coons, thin coons, north or south. I don't really care what kind of hunting style a dog has. Any dog that wins or has won a world hunt or made it to the final cast is a special dog as very, very few accomplish this feat. My hats off to all the guys and their dogs that make it to the end. I'm confident they worked hard to get there and deserved to be there.

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Back to the post I have been to the top 100 three times Final 4 once and I agree with Oak the dog must be nice but Consistance is the biggest thing and then comes dum luck! After all the countless hrs. of prep. it just take some breaks to go your way. The harder you go after it the better your luck (most of the time)

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Joe- some where you and I got our wires crossed I never said I think that a dog that wins a world hunt is the best dog in the world nor do I think it is the most valuable dog in the world nor a more impressive dog than the little female you described. I'm simply saying its a special dog and accomplished an awesome feat that many try for but few achieve.

How would you feel if say your cube dog won the world hunt under the same circumstances and then you read on here people saying he's a slick treeing me too dog. I seriously doubt you'd be real happy about it.

I'm not defending the John dog, heck I never even heard of him before this and I certainly never hunted with him but its just not right for people to say that crap about him.

For this year, in this area and on those nights in those conditions he pulled it out. Every dog that hunted in the world hunt had the same chances. I thought it interesting that one poster (I can't recall who) that apparently hunts with this dog kept saying he'll get alone with the meat before its over........and low and behold he did.

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Al Tarantella

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mark V.
Back to the post I have been to the top 100 three times Final 4 once and I agree with Oak the dog must be nice but Consistance is the biggest thing and then comes dum luck! After all the countless hrs. of prep. it just take some breaks to go your way. The harder you go after it the better your luck (most of the time)

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Al Tarantella

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I don't usually take part in back and forth postings. But, much has been said in question of the quality of hunting and performance in this years final cast. I would like to share some information to help paint a true picture for experienced coonhunters to base their judgements on. The first two trees were no less than 30 foot cedar trees surrounded by like trees, leaving very little openings for clear view from top to bottom, the third tree was not just one hedge apple but three completely encompassed with grape vines. The fourth tree was a monster oak in the middle of thick woods. I have found these to be the preferred trees on nights when the moon id full and you can read a newspaper without a light, as it was during the final cast. The guide successfully placed the cast in a place where coons were present and moving. The hounds did an excellent track in moving and treeing coon. As for the use of third round results to base the coon population on, keep in mind in rained more than 2 inches in the first 6 hours of that rounds hunting time. Note that the crowned world champion treed a coon and was plussed during the heaviest of this rain.

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