Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
Allen ,

In the winter time here a BIG hill country boar will run like a Cheetah and take you on an Adventure .( I actually had this type of race Fri night.) I highly advise you to leave your TT15 at home if it parallels your logic of scratching a dog cause if you ever come down to hunt you may just ruin that dog of yours

BTW , you never did answer my question either.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
Alan I have another one for you ,
4 dog cast all dogs are struck in my dog comes back you minus him strike points but he has the strong smell of skunk on him are you scratching me?

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I will answer that ,no , Surely you can do better than that

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
First off I find it HILARIOUS that you would know my dog better than i so lets just say this....
If my dog was "possibly" running junk and you "thought" it was and you scratched me to get an advantage cause im putting it on you and you are wanting to eliminate me and then a few minutes later my dog gets treed . Then What ?

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I d say you should have known the rules better if you allow that to happen . Gota do better than that

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JOE WILBANKS
423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

UKC PREFORMANCE SIRE Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse

HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks

Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old
Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: wyandotte,ok
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Allen you know as well as I do we can work on rule changes for days on days and submit 10 or was it 11 and not even one get approved. Remember that.
So here's my thought on this everyone needs to submit there rule changes to there breeds let there breeds review those rule changes and then they submit them to UKC after they have reviewed them. UKC then reviews them and then put them on here to voted on by the public and not just two reps from each breed.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1141

quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
I will answer that ,no , Surely you can do better than that

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Believe me I know joe well he is a nut just like us he was joking you just don't know the stuff we pull on each other might be why I got thick hide you get mad they just keep pouring it on lol.



Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22461

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
...Believe me I know joe well he is a nut.....
Tar

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Tarbaby, didn't you already get banned once for name calling on here? You would think that you would have learned something from that.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1141

Originally posted by Toad Hill
Alan I have another one for you ,
4 dog cast all dogs are struck in my dog comes back you minus him strike points but he has the strong smell of skunk on him are you scratching me?
I will answer that ,no , Surely you can do better than that
^^^ Well Joey according to Allen he should be Scratched just by speculation/common sense. I didnt say i would allow it ! I was just asking a question and giving a scenario


Here you go Joey ...

True story it Happened in a UKC World hunt many years ago. Possum crosses road guide pulls truck over says were cutting here . Guys in cast saw the possum and didnt say anything everyone gets out Guide has them cut towards possum . ALL dogs struck and BLOWS up hard treed every breath . The guy tellin me the story said we all knew what was going on so he said mine aint leaving will be here all night so just tree Jack !!! the 3 other guys tree in also.
While walking to tree ( but before getting to tree ) one walker dog comes crawling up to cast on his belly like a border collie Judge says your dog is minused !! They continue to Walk to tree 3 dogs found treed under the grinner all 3 dogs scratched . The walker dog that crawled into cast was minused even though EVERYONE including the judge KNEW the walker dog was at the tree treed. Walker dog wins cast and advances .
Fair or Not ?
How would you have scored it ? Same way ? or Scratch The walker dog also ?

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1141

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
An honest handler would just snap his dog and head to the truck. Why would the judge have to scratch you? Rule says dogs are scratched for molesting or trailing off game.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Yeah and your the one did it too!! Because you were trying to teach me a lesson huh ?




Tarbaby

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 1141

quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
I d say you should have known the rules better if you allow that to happen . Gota do better than that

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
How do you know he was "molesting" a skunk Richard ?

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Because the skunk got mad and sprayed him.
But I have never seen a dog get minused or scratched for smelling like a skunk. Apparently there are only 2 things that you don't have to "see", deer race and dog fight. Actually, I have never seen a dog minused or scratched for running a deer unless the deer was seen. But I have seen plenty of dogs scratched for fighting when the fight wasn't seen.

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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
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quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
I d say you should have known the rules better if you allow that to happen . Gota do better than that

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Registered: Aug 2004
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Maybe we need a rule that says each cast must have 3 honest handlers in it.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Maybe we need a rule that says each cast must have 3 honest handlers in it.

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We already have "Honor Rules" for that!

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Registered: Aug 2004
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Maybe the judge could just ask each handler at the beginning if they are going to be honorable. If they say no then he could scratch them right then. If they say yes and then don't later on, he can just scratch them then for being dishonorable.
If a less than honorable hunter tries to enter a hunt, then the MOH could just refuse his entry.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-24-2018 at 04:59 PM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9186

quote:

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Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
It has always been my understanding that interference is only required to meet the criteria for "attempting to fight". Fighting is fighting no interference required.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Maybe the judge could just ask each handler at the beginning if they are going to be honorable. If they say no then he could scratch them right then. If they say yes and then don't later on, he can just scratch them then for being dishonorable.
If a less than honorable hunter tries to enter a hunt, then the MOH could just refuse his entry.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
When they rolling on the ground that is being interfered with the ability to tree is gone. If the aggressor is know it is scratched if they are both the aggressor or it is not know upon arrival they both are. This still cannot be judged from afar properly and criteria for heading into the tree is already on the books no need for rash judgement without seeing it and making calls from a distance that could be hundreds of yards away.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
Alan I have another one for you ,
4 dog cast all dogs are struck in my dog comes back you minus him strike points but he has the strong smell of skunk on him are you scratching me?

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
Posts: 384

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Jen, are you sure this is the way Chey understands the rule to be interpreted? Sounds like the way it is done in a different registry. I have hunted plenty long enough to know what an all out dog fight sounds like without having to lay eyes on the actual fight. So do 100's of others. I'm not talking about "possibly, could be's or might be's". I'm going to have to agree to disagree. If you're suggesting this is the way it should be opposed to the way UKC has always suggested, then forgive me for misunderstanding your post.

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Registered: Jan 2013
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I am confused you want to scratch a dog for running speed beef least he is running somthing !! You should scratch them for running haints that's means they are running nothens jmo.



Tar

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
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So this kind of goes with the whole running off game thing. So two weeks ago we had the OK State hunt. I was hunting Ntch judging and guiding. We cut the dogs and 2 opened about 400 yards in front of us and basically fell treed, one opened right handed about 50-60 yards of the other two and mine opened considerably deeper (4-500 yards). Two handlers tree their dogs the 3rd guys dog end up working back towards the treed dogs but he doesn't tree. When we get there, there is 1 dog in the tree, and one dog on the ground. The 3rd dog that was right handed is backed off the tree about 15 yards treeing the dog that's in the tree (in my opinion). Its a fairly small persimmon tree and I really figured there wouldn't be anything to look at... Well ole smiley was there on the back side so they were scratched. I felt for the guy's young dog that was legitimately treeing off sight of the dog in the tree... He pleaded a good case about his wasn't treeing the opossum and I don't think he was... But I had no choice but to scratch him lol

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
I agree with THAT but the both of us know thats not how it goes these days Neither of us fell out of a tree and bumped our heads.

OK OK Ok Ok ...Take the advantage part outta my question and answer it.
If my dog was "possibly" running junk and you "thought" it was and you scratched me and then a few minutes later my dog gets treed . Then What ? You gonna remove the scratch ?

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Probably not, if I had no zero reservations and felt the call was the right call.

Fact is, I have personally scratched very few dogs, if any that I remember, for running deer without actually seeing the deer. That said, more times than not, the benefit of the doubt favored the dogs.

This topic brings to mind a hunt some years ago. One where it was painfully obvious what the dogs were running. We all dang well knew it.

Three dog cast. Within seconds of turning loose, two dogs struck red hot and burned out across an open field. One dog comes back and cowered around the cast for a minute before wandering off into the woods to our right. When that one dog came back, the dad of the one handler got in his truck and sped off down the road without saying a word to us. In a matter of no time the dogs had covered a half mile where they hit the woven wire fence by the road and both handlers called their dogs treed. That lasted about five seconds until they got across the fence and the race was back on. Against our better judgment, we headed across the field in their direction.

Across that next road was another open field that led to a woods a quarter mile or so from the road. Guess who met up with us at the road? Dad had a few choice words for the dog he was feeding. He commenced to tell us that he got to this road in time to see the deer cross and tried to get his hands on the dogs when they got hung up on the fence for a second.

And yes, the same two dogs were eventually handled on a tree in those woods off in the distance.

The moral of the story is; maybe we could/should also put more emphasis on doing the right thing sometimes when it's painfully obvious instead of making lame excuses that no one would buy any other night of the week. If the situation calls for giving the dogs the benefit of the doubt, do it. If there's no question DO THE RIGHT THING and make the call! The sport is better served for it.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9186

quote:

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Originally posted by TylerOSU
Alan I think you're both right. To me the fighting thing is interpretation like the rest. There's a difference from a dog running the tree and falling on a dog and causing it to face bark vs a dog covering a 4:45 seconds and legitimately trying to run one off. Now in UKC I've seen them get scratched for a growl. I do feel like it takes less to get scratched for aggressive behavior in UKC which in some cases is good I guess.

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