UKC Forums UKC Website :: Hunting Ops :: All-Breed Sports :: Registration :: UKC Online Store
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home  
UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Tweaking a dog to compete (bad tracks)?
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
MorAnd
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2018
Location:
Posts: 38

Tweaking a dog to compete (bad tracks)?

I figure there'll be several opinions to this question, depending on the type of dog you like and what you like listening to. I train a dog to compete and not just tree coons. When your dog is on a bad track that its having trouble moving/unraveling:

1) at what point do you determine that the dog won't finish that track with a coon, or it will probably take it longer than you're want it to

2) on average, how long do you allow it to work/worry with that track before you send it on/move it out

3) what is your method in sending it on/moving it out

4) how long does it usually take for a dog to get the idea of what you're wanting it to do, and begin to leave those type tracks alone on it's own without encouragement from you

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-16-2020 11:22 PM
MorAnd is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MorAnd Click here to Send MorAnd a Private Message Find more posts by MorAnd Add MorAnd to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
rdmedders
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Alabama
Posts: 654

Re: Tweaking a dog to compete (bad tracks)?

quote:
Originally posted by MorAnd
I figure there'll be several opinions to this question, depending on the type of dog you like and what you like listening to. I train a dog to compete and not just tree coons. When your dog is on a bad track that its having trouble moving/unraveling:

1) at what point do you determine that the dog won't finish that track with a coon, or it will probably take it longer than you're want it to

2) on average, how long do you allow it to work/worry with that track before you send it on/move it out

3) what is your method in sending it on/moving it out

4) how long does it usually take for a dog to get the idea of what you're wanting it to do, and begin to leave those type tracks alone on it's own without encouragement from you


some of the same questions i've been looking for answers on!

__________________
Jesus saves!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-17-2020 02:23 AM
rdmedders is offline Click Here to See the Profile for rdmedders Click here to Send rdmedders a Private Message Click Here to Email rdmedders Find more posts by rdmedders Add rdmedders to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Cotton 1927
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Central,illinois
Posts: 506

Reply

Are you going to primarily pleasure hunt or competion hunt?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-17-2020 02:51 AM
Cotton 1927 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Cotton 1927 Click here to Send Cotton 1927 a Private Message Click Here to Email Cotton 1927 Find more posts by Cotton 1927 Add Cotton 1927 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 20049

I don't send mine on. I want them to learn to finish a track if they start it. They can't learn if you keep sending them on looking for an easy one.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-17-2020 03:10 AM
Richard Lambert is online now Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Lambert Click here to Send Richard Lambert a Private Message Click Here to Email Richard Lambert Find more posts by Richard Lambert Add Richard Lambert to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2684

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I don't send mine on. I want them to learn to finish a track if they start it. They can't learn if you keep sending them on looking for an easy one.
Same here. Let 'em struggle.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-17-2020 04:10 AM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 4830

Dog

My thinking has always been that if a dog can smell the track enough to open on it, then the dog should be able to finish the track and tree the coon. I just do not like excuses like the tracks too old or rough, etc. If they can smell it they CAN tree it, NO EXCUSES. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-17-2020 05:00 AM
Dave Richards is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dave Richards Click here to Send Dave Richards a Private Message Click Here to Email Dave Richards Find more posts by Dave Richards Add Dave Richards to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Leon Keys
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2019
Location: North Texas
Posts: 27

No more than 30 minutes per strike

Iím a pleasure hunter. My goal is to make 3 or 4 trees in a 2 hour hunt. The dog I am hunting now is an honest strike dog that likes to trail. He is normally struck inside of 5 minutes. The bad side of that is that he starts tracks he struggles to move & finish. I give him 30 minutes to finish each track struck on weekday work nights. If heís still struggling around the 30 minute mark, I call & tone him back to me. I load him up and go to another set of woods and turn out. On weekends, Iíll give him up to an hour to finish a track. Iíve come to the conclusion that he has more try than talent. He trees enough Coons for me to feed him.
-
I recut him off trees in the same set of woods but I donít verbally (or electronically) tell him to quit a track & move on.

__________________
Happy Huntiní
Leon

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-17-2020 01:14 PM
Leon Keys is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Leon Keys Click here to Send Leon Keys a Private Message Click Here to Email Leon Keys Find more posts by Leon Keys Add Leon Keys to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 20049

Mr Leon, that is a happy medium and makes a lot of sense.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-17-2020 03:45 PM
Richard Lambert is online now Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Lambert Click here to Send Richard Lambert a Private Message Click Here to Email Richard Lambert Find more posts by Richard Lambert Add Richard Lambert to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MorAnd
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2018
Location:
Posts: 38

top

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-2020 03:22 AM
MorAnd is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MorAnd Click here to Send MorAnd a Private Message Find more posts by MorAnd Add MorAnd to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1923

Just me and my opinion. It May not be right.
I don't move a dog on or any of that. Occasionally I have toned a dog back in to me because I got tired of waiting or I'm frozen or getting soaked. But I don't do that very often or maybe I need to cull my dog and get a better track dog. Which I have done just that over the years when I needed to. I never regretted it either. I like a dog that can do a quality job of tracking. Fast is great as well but quality tracking is key. If a dog is back tracking, spaghetti the Garmin screen, skipping tracks or falling treed on empties very often it's time for a new dog. Just being able to tree coon isn't good enough to satisfy me and I can't track a coon for them.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-2020 02:29 PM
pamjohnson is offline Click Here to See the Profile for pamjohnson Click here to Send pamjohnson a Private Message Click Here to Email pamjohnson Find more posts by pamjohnson Add pamjohnson to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 989

Here's one to think about. What about the dog that strikes and can't get the track straightened out. After about 15-20 minutes in a pretty small area he falls treed with the coon. Now the other dogs couldn't (wouldn't) even open on this track. You like him or not?

__________________
Tom Wood

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-2020 03:36 PM
Preacher Tom is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Preacher Tom Click here to Send Preacher Tom a Private Message Click Here to Email Preacher Tom Find more posts by Preacher Tom Add Preacher Tom to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
houndsound
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 852

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Here's one to think about. What about the dog that strikes and can't get the track straightened out. After about 15-20 minutes in a pretty small area he falls treed with the coon. Now the other dogs couldn't (wouldn't) even open on this track. You like him or not?


Yes

__________________
Checkout Wyoming coon hunting:

https://nighttrainhounds.webs.com/

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-2020 04:26 PM
houndsound is offline Click Here to See the Profile for houndsound Click here to Send houndsound a Private Message Click Here to Email houndsound Visit houndsound's homepage! Find more posts by houndsound Add houndsound to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2684

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Here's one to think about. What about the dog that strikes and can't get the track straightened out. After about 15-20 minutes in a pretty small area he falls treed with the coon. Now the other dogs couldn't (wouldn't) even open on this track. You like him or not?
She's in my pen. I like her.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-2020 05:15 PM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1923

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Here's one to think about. What about the dog that strikes and can't get the track straightened out. After about 15-20 minutes in a pretty small area he falls treed with the coon. Now the other dogs couldn't (wouldn't) even open on this track. You like him or not?
maybe or maybe not. I seen a dog do just that on 3 different coon one night in a cast I was hunting in. It was impressive. My dog was 1 of the other dogs that got his but trimmed that night. But the dog that treed them coon was one of slick treeingest dogs you could ever hunt with on a regular basis. No I wouldn't own him.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-2020 06:14 PM
pamjohnson is offline Click Here to See the Profile for pamjohnson Click here to Send pamjohnson a Private Message Click Here to Email pamjohnson Find more posts by pamjohnson Add pamjohnson to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2684

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
maybe or maybe not. I seen a dog do just that on 3 different coon one night in a cast I was hunting in. It was impressive. My dog was 1 of the other dogs that got his but trimmed that night. But the dog that treed them coon was one of slick treeingest dogs you could ever hunt with on a regular basis. No I wouldn't own him.
Preacher Tom does say," falls treed with the coon".

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-18-2020 11:58 PM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MorAnd
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2018
Location:
Posts: 38

I appreciate the responses and respect those that see it and train different than I do. I train dogs to compete and while I realize it sometimes take a dog a while to unravel some tracks, I need my dog to tree as many coons as it can in during regulation hunting time and I don't want it spending too much time on any given track when if it had skipped out (sometimes) a couple hundred yards, it might find a track that it can tree much quicker. I realize the next track may be just as bad or worse, but I'd rather my dog be moving around to find a track it can tree fairly quickly. I also realize that on some casts there is only 1 con treed and it may be treed by that dog that spent time unraveling that cold track and came up with the cast winning coon.

I'm not talking about a cold or feed track that a dog is moving out on, I'm referring to when the dog stays in the same general area (say within 50 - 100 yards) for 10 minutes or more going back and forth, over here and over there, but not really moving the track out.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-20-2020 04:44 AM
MorAnd is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MorAnd Click here to Send MorAnd a Private Message Find more posts by MorAnd Add MorAnd to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1384

quote:
Originally posted by MorAnd
I appreciate the responses and respect those that see it and train different than I do. I train dogs to compete and while I realize it sometimes take a dog a while to unravel some tracks, I need my dog to tree as many coons as it can in during regulation hunting time and I don't want it spending too much time on any given track when if it had skipped out (sometimes) a couple hundred yards, it might find a track that it can tree much quicker. I realize the next track may be just as bad or worse, but I'd rather my dog be moving around to find a track it can tree fairly quickly. I also realize that on some casts there is only 1 con treed and it may be treed by that dog that spent time unraveling that cold track and came up with the cast winning coon.

I'm not talking about a cold or feed track that a dog is moving out on, I'm referring to when the dog stays in the same general area (say within 50 - 100 yards) for 10 minutes or more going back and forth, over here and over there, but not really moving the track out.



I donít coon hunt but good hog dogs are quite a bit like good coon dogs...l see it as slightly different...the really good dogs donít have this problem...they tend to locate and line out the track...

Then you have those dogs that occasionally get hung up trying to straighten the track...if they do this too often I wonít spend much time on them...

Then Iíve had a few dogs that stuck with the first track they came across and they would stay with that track too long...I wonít keep a dog of that type...

I see it more like the dog either has it or he dosenít...and sometimes I have to live with it until I have a replacement...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-20-2020 01:06 PM
Reuben is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Reuben Click here to Send Reuben a Private Message Click Here to Email Reuben Find more posts by Reuben Add Reuben to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Davebrott
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: muskegon mi
Posts: 134

tracks

after 10 mins of standing on his head i would move them out of the area.either by running him out of there with a stick or shocker depends how the dog acts with a shocker. if you plan on competition hunting time is everything you don't want one standing on there head for long.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-20-2020 05:09 PM
Davebrott is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Davebrott Click here to Send Davebrott a Private Message Click Here to Email Davebrott Find more posts by Davebrott Add Davebrott to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dogwhisper
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1645

I've dropped dogs w/no hinge and dogs with a hinge.
Both if given time will tree their coon.
The no hinge type will be 2-3 sections over and crossed 2 roads to tree their coon ,if it don't get run over .....the hinge will stay in the section dropped in 8-20 min. & come up with it's coon also.
I don't e-stimulate them when their tracking .
If I want to move a dog along I'll send in a heads ups track dog ...after all if a dog is by itself it ain't competing & even that is no guarantee the dog will lift it's head and compete .

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-20-2020 06:16 PM
Dogwhisper is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dogwhisper Click here to Send Dogwhisper a Private Message Find more posts by Dogwhisper Add Dogwhisper to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MorAnd
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2018
Location:
Posts: 38

Dogwhisperer,

That's a different perspective Ö send in a dog that puts pressure on it; hadn't really thought of it like that. Nor, have I heard the "no hinge/hinge" verbiage. That's the beauty of this board, different thoughts/ ideas and terminology. I love learning something new Ö


Davebott,

Sounds like we train alike. Heck, we may both be wrong (Lol), but that's just how we see it.


Reuben,

It's funny, coon hunters seem to think dogs don't get hung up on off game/non-coon tracks. I've heard it said, I wish my dog could run a coon like he does a hog/deer. It sounds like some hog tracks are colder and have to be unraveled too.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-20-2020 11:23 PM
MorAnd is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MorAnd Click here to Send MorAnd a Private Message Find more posts by MorAnd Add MorAnd to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
River Birch Run
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 1133

So there is a lot of info missing here on the question the should be addressed 1st. How old is the dog and how much time in the woods has it had ALONE? I dedicate a yr to hunting a dog alone through all four seasons. The most important thing is to fine a nice log to sit on by a tree for witch to lean you back on. Sit back a listen, use your garmin mark areas the dog throws interesting barks at. Once the dog moves out of the area check those marked area's. See what was there it don't take long to learn what every bark the dog makes mean. I like to sneak in on a dog where I can watch it work too. There are so many factors as to why a dog is standing on its head. Tree tops, dry leaves, tracking off game, jumping tracks, water, frost, tall vegetation, thick cover, the list goes on and on. The trick is to learn what is holding the dog up and keeping the shocker in the pocket and letting the dog finish. Once you are pretty certain what slows the dog down, try to set the dog up to succeed, to build its confidence. Sprinkle in what it struggles with and the dog should get better at it as it's confidence builds. You can speed this along if you have a good dog you can toss in with it every now and again to show it to how to better work an area it struggles in. I.E. working a track threw thick tree tops with briers. I good dog will take track to that point then circle it and pick it up on the back side rather than work through it. A young dog will pick up on that rather fast if it trust the dog it's in the woods with. It's all about reps and positive renforcement.

__________________
Home of the Original Whiskey Hounds!
Rebecca Agee

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-24-2020 02:20 PM
River Birch Run is offline Click Here to See the Profile for River Birch Run Click here to Send River Birch Run a Private Message Find more posts by River Birch Run Add River Birch Run to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
houndsound
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 852

quote:
Originally posted by River Birch Run
So there is a lot of info missing here on the question the should be addressed 1st. How old is the dog and how much time in the woods has it had ALONE? I dedicate a yr to hunting a dog alone through all four seasons. The most important thing is to fine a nice log to sit on by a tree for witch to lean you back on. Sit back a listen, use your garmin mark areas the dog throws interesting barks at. Once the dog moves out of the area check those marked area's. See what was there it don't take long to learn what every bark the dog makes mean. I like to sneak in on a dog where I can watch it work too. There are so many factors as to why a dog is standing on its head. Tree tops, dry leaves, tracking off game, jumping tracks, water, frost, tall vegetation, thick cover, the list goes on and on. The trick is to learn what is holding the dog up and keeping the shocker in the pocket and letting the dog finish. Once you are pretty certain what slows the dog down, try to set the dog up to succeed, to build its confidence. Sprinkle in what it struggles with and the dog should get better at it as it's confidence builds. You can speed this along if you have a good dog you can toss in with it every now and again to show it to how to better work an area it struggles in. I.E. working a track threw thick tree tops with briers. I good dog will take track to that point then circle it and pick it up on the back side rather than work through it. A young dog will pick up on that rather fast if it trust the dog it's in the woods with. It's all about reps and positive renforcement.


Excellent post!

__________________
Checkout Wyoming coon hunting:

https://nighttrainhounds.webs.com/

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-24-2020 03:02 PM
houndsound is offline Click Here to See the Profile for houndsound Click here to Send houndsound a Private Message Click Here to Email houndsound Visit houndsound's homepage! Find more posts by houndsound Add houndsound to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
MUSKY
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2010
Location: Fairmont WV
Posts: 309

Sounds to me like you need to get a hot nosed ambush style hound. It wonít mess with a cold track, will be tight on the ground and will run through the woods looking to get hooked up. If you live and hunt where coons are thick they are very productive. I unfortunately do not live in a area with a good coon population and will not shock a dog off a bad track. I have called them in and moved before though. Where I live they have to be willing to run the first track they come across, it may be the only one for quite a while so I typically prefer a track dog with a pretty good nose and hopefully they donít spend half their life trying to figure it out.

__________________
Wayne Musgrave

Home of:
A couple old plugs

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-24-2020 03:58 PM
MUSKY is offline Click Here to See the Profile for MUSKY Click here to Send MUSKY a Private Message Click Here to Email MUSKY Find more posts by MUSKY Add MUSKY to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 666

Outstanding Track Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
I donít coon hunt but good hog dogs are quite a bit like good coon dogs...l see it as slightly different...the really good dogs donít have this problem...they tend to locate and line out the track...

Then you have those dogs that occasionally get hung up trying to straighten the track...if they do this too often I wonít spend much time on them...

Then Iíve had a few dogs that stuck with the first track they came across and they would stay with that track too long...I wonít keep a dog of that type...

I see it more like the dog either has it or he dosenít...and sometimes I have to live with it until I have a replacement...



Totally Agree

"If you put a big enough propeller on a house, then you can make it fly, but that doesn't necessarily mean that its a good idea." Ken Risley

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-25-2020 03:49 PM
Kler Kry is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Kler Kry Click here to Send Kler Kry a Private Message Click Here to Email Kler Kry Find more posts by Kler Kry Add Kler Kry to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1370

If you tweak a young dog off bad tracks you may be preventing that dog from it's full potential. The best dog I ever had had so much nose he would take a track at midnight that was made early and other dogs wouldn't even open on and trail what seemed like forever. I would sit in the truck with my window cracked until his big squal locate then go to him. By two years old he would drift out on it and tree coons that others didn't know was in the woods and not take all night to do it.
Electronic training equipment is great but it can be over used too.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 11-25-2020 07:17 PM
yadkinriver is offline Click Here to See the Profile for yadkinriver Click here to Send yadkinriver a Private Message Click Here to Email yadkinriver Visit yadkinriver's homepage! Find more posts by yadkinriver Add yadkinriver to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:24 PM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread


Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
< Contact Us - United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2020, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)