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sleepy head
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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

Rule ?

All dogs struck, one dog trees, tree is scored with coon, cast gets 30 feet from tree and another dog trees on the scored tree. How this dog scored?

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01-27-2016 02:20 PM

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cory hall
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You can not score a previously scored tree, delete.

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01-27-2016 02:30 PM

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sleepy head
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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:
Originally posted by cory hall
You can not score a previously scored tree, delete.

If the dog would have been a little quicker he would of been minuses, seems like a flaw in the rules

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01-27-2016 02:37 PM

JiM
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Allowing dogs to return to a previously scored tree unlimited numbers of times is definately a flaw in the rules. And it is a flaw that will probably remain in the rules fr a long time more. There's a large number of coonhunters out there that consider it acceptable. They just don't believe you should ever correct a dog for treeing where there is a coon.

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01-27-2016 03:32 PM

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sleepy head
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Same basic question except one dog comes while shining tree, one dog comes in right after cast has plused the tree?

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01-27-2016 09:58 PM

JiM
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The key is when dogs are RECAST or timeout called. Before that, any dog that comes in and is handled is covering a closed tree with a coon seen, minus strike. After recast or timeout, delete strike. That's how I think it is handled unless I'm wrong.

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01-27-2016 10:33 PM

sleepy head
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That seems right, it came up in a mock hunt the other night

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01-27-2016 10:57 PM

Rip
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If you have already left the tree that's treeing on a previously scored tree and that dog gets deleted.

You have to still be at the tree as once you leave the tree is considered "scored" at least that's my understanding from an Advisor many, many years ago LOL.

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01-28-2016 12:16 AM

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ssgied
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Registered: Mar 2009
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Advisor reads that it is a scored tree immediately after the majority has seen the coon without question.

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01-28-2016 12:34 AM

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joey
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quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
Advisor reads that it is a scored tree immediately after the majority has seen the coon without question.

So you are saying as soon as the majority sees the coon the other dogs are free to come in without being minused? I dont think it works like that.

The key to it is they had left the tree. My only reservation about it is the fact that all the dogs handled at that tree are still considered as treed until they are recast.

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01-28-2016 12:46 AM

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Mark V.
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I had a M.O rule that the tree is scored when the vote is taken,as the rules say

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01-28-2016 11:27 AM

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JiM
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The point at which the tree is scored and the point at which dogs are recast is not the same thing. That is what some of you are missing. Yes, the tree is scored when when the vote is completed and no question posed. But that is not when dogs are recast. And dogs covering a closed tree before those dogs are eligible to recast are scored under rule 4-F.

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01-28-2016 01:24 PM

sleepy head
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Btt

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10-03-2018 08:48 PM

Redneck Mafia
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quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
Btt

Well JS, some say if the dogs that treed in this coon are still on the lead but not re-cut loose the dog that came in is minused. Here is the kicker on that the dog could actually take a -125 for being treed after the 5 min is up and by treeing would be saying that he was split treed then taking a whatever strike it was carrying for treeing on a coon after the judge arrived.
Then there is the rest of us thst say the tree was scored now completely dead and now a previously scored tree and all points should be deleted for treeing there.

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10-03-2018 09:15 PM

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Dave Richards
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Rule

This was answered on another thread and the ADVISOR was quoted as to when a tree was previously scored. We can not let our personal opinion, logic or anything else cloud the issue. UKC addressed this in the ADVISOR, go by it. Dave

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10-03-2018 09:26 PM

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Redneck Mafia
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Re: Rule

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
This was answered on another thread and the ADVISOR was quoted as to when a tree was previously scored. We can not let our personal opinion, logic or anything else cloud the issue. UKC addressed this in the ADVISOR, go by it. Dave

a) Coon is found before shining time expires.
Immediately after the point where a majority of the cast has plainly seen the coon without question--it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.
b)Cast members suspend the search before shining time expires without finding a coon.
Immediately after the point when all cast members are satisfied to quit the search-it becomes a ''previously'' scored tree.
c) Shining time expires and no coon is found.
Immediately following the 8 minutes expiration of shining time-it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.

this was taken out of the advisor 2nd edition on pages 51 & 52 the whole question on previously scored trees is there to read, I did change from 10 minutes to 8 minutes shine time.--it would take me all afternoon to quote the whole question & their reply.--lol--I know a lot will disagree with the ruling--but its not mine.
in the end it looks like delete strike points to the dog coming in after the tree is scored to me.

X2 agree.

What some are saying including our board experts Jim and Michael think it is not until dogs are re-cast tells me there must be something contradictory in the advisor or rules somewhere.

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10-03-2018 09:41 PM

JiM
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Just read in my book and I stand corrected. Not sure how I got this one so wrong for so long.
Also not sure where this "expert" stuff comes from. This sure ain't the first time I had it wrong.

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10-03-2018 09:52 PM

sleepy head
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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
That seems right, it came up in a mock hunt the other night

I asked this two years ago, i hope JiM is right because after JiMs reply i called my buddy whos dog trailed to the tree after we seen the coon and told him his dog was minused, i enjoy minuusing his dogs. Lol. Sidenote i had my Garmin collar on his dog, she took the exact path mine did only it took 10 minutes longer. She needed minus imo

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10-03-2018 09:59 PM

Dave Richards
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Sleeoy

Jim was wrong, apologize to your buddy. Lol. Dave

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10-03-2018 10:13 PM

sleepy head
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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

Re: Sleeoy

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Jim was wrong, apologize to your buddy. Lol. Dave

The heck with em Dave, I remind him of that track every once in a while. We turned loose, mine came out of the box with his head up and was 750 yards treed in just a few minutes. We walked to him and found the coon and i was getting ready to recut when his old hag came bawling in. My buddys body language completely changed. His shoulders came together, head went down. Just opposite for me.

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10-03-2018 10:38 PM

Dave Richards
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Sleepy head

Now pleasure hunting is a different story, rag him all you want. Lol. Dave

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10-04-2018 01:35 AM

groworg1
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1876

2nd advisor is out of print and out dated must refer to coonhound advisor column in bloodlines magazine or coonhound news ukc front page /hunting/coonhound news for current rulings that supersede 2nd addition i haven't taken the time to research it out but i will

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10-04-2018 02:22 AM

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jculler8
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 3377

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Allowing dogs to return to a previously scored tree unlimited numbers of times is definately a flaw in the rules. And it is a flaw that will probably remain in the rules fr a long time more. There's a large number of coonhunters out there that consider it acceptable. They just don't believe you should ever correct a dog for treeing where there is a coon.

Easiest dog to beat is one that goes back.

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