Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Merersburg PA
Posts: 68

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Matt I apologize but I don't think you understood. Or I did not make myself clear enough. I am not talking about the younger generation of hunters. I have nothing but the upmost respect for them and spend a lot of money each year promoting what they do in Youth Programs.

I am taking about the younger generation of hounds that are being produced. Not any particular generation of hunters young or old that are producing them.

Here is the thing and it is a Blessing but perhaps a curse. When someone lives a long time and is involved with something a long time. They are Blessed to see the changes to a sport over the years. Dog breeding is about genetics. But there is also an environmental affect on genetics. Most people in the hound world for 20 years never see the changes. They just roll with what is out there and make the best of it. You see 50 year changes in hound behavior and it makes you scratch you head and wonder where some of the actions of our dogs today creeped into the breeding program.

I am not saying there are not quality dogs out there. There are and the quality of today is better that the average quality of the past. Just with the quality comes a lot of actions that borders on for lack of better term. Being nuts.

Maybe the same with our Children. Look at the kids today that go to school on medication so they can sit still an be quiet so the Teacher can teach. Has our kids and dogs both had there genetics migrate to a point of being over Hyper. Or has the condition always been there and 50 years ago it was medicated with a switch on both the dog and kids. In todays world the switch has become a ancient and cruel object. But it use to work.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Matt all is good. Appreciate you reading and posting on this forum. We all can learn form one another.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Bruce I have bought 3 or 4 females in the last year that I thought would be good crosses on my studs and have had to send them back or give them away after 2 weeks of trying break them from bad habits.
You boys that make fun of the Old blood just don’t have any! Doubt I will go outside our lines again, my sanity is worth something😊

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4473

I have been noticing these Scatter Brained, Barking & Chewing Idiots for tge last 10 years.......!!!
I have tried to raise Pups from different Studs.....NEVER AGAIN....!!!

Its not only in the Hounds, its other Dogs as well. I Paid $500 for a Lab Pup for my Daughter......He Chewed 2 Dog Houses up, Chewed thru Chain Link, Chewed thru 4x4 Posts in his Kennel.
Got rid of him and No More Pups for me.
Tim

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Can’t count the breeders that say the pups I sell at 8 weeks old don’t do that. Hmmmmmm when you see the dogs that are known to throw those traits doubled and tripled up in a 3 generation pedigree you know they know it and are just in it for the money.


Then when you see the top competitors in the nation you got to to realize they got the money to not buy the idiots the only buy the best.


Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Bruce, Mr Sullivan might be on to something. He is right about horses and protein. I remember that we were careful not to feed our western pleasure horses corn because it had too much protein in it. We fed them oats. Corn gave them too much energy and we wanted them laid back. Human athletes eat high protein diets to give themselves extra energy and it really wires them up. Maybe that is why Pro Atheletes tend to not have very good manners.
Someone should take a couple of those wired up pups with bad kennel manners and feed them 21% protein Purina green bag dog chow to see if it makes a difference.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Bruce, Mr Sullivan might be on to something. He is right about horses and protein. I remember that we were careful not to feed our western pleasure horses corn because it had too much protein in it. We fed them oats. Corn gave them too much energy and we wanted them laid back. Human athletes eat high protein diets to give themselves extra energy and it really wires them up. Maybe that is why Pro Atheletes tend to not have very good manners.
Someone should take a couple of those wired up pups with bad kennel manners and feed them 21% protein Purina green bag dog chow to see if it makes a difference.

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

I only get to see a small portion of dogs in my neck of the woods or on the net but I used to believe other fellows when that's what they told me until I started paying closer attention. For example mr ed mead has owned the youngest gr nt ch at 1 point and it's not uncommon for him to start many of his blue pups very young.
Fred Moran with his redbones are another fine example. The 1st time I hunted with him in a nite hunt he had a 6 month old female that blew my mind. I was told redbones didn't start early and I told him that he just laughed at me and for good reason as i just didn't know any better.
I have had many of my own blue dogs treeing there own by 6 or 7 months old and I'm not that great at starting them.
I have even seen pictures of king Richards pups on the wood early LOL

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 1148

quote:

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Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Bruce I have bought 3 or 4 females in the last year that I thought would be good crosses on my studs and have had to send them back or give them away after 2 weeks of trying break them from bad habits.
You boys that make fun of the Old blood just don’t have any! Doubt I will go outside our lines again, my sanity is worth something😊

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Ok a man that raises coonhounds may not have any sanity to begin with 😁

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Bruce, I am going to give my take on what has happened to the coonhound overall, ( yes there are still some good ones out there, and some rise to the top out of these crosses)
The overriding factor in breeding for the last 35 years has been the "Tree", so breeding extreme tree dog to tree dog to tree dog
has over taken some the other aspects of the balanced hound.
I will call them new breeding, i believe that they cannot control themselves, they run on pure emotion and there strong vocal emotion takes charge of there thoughts.

Example....Since the track just got hard my overriding desire is to tree? Some will not agree with this, but my next conclusion is they don't have enough since to know it's not there.
Example#2 New blood barking excessively in kennel,while the rest are resting comfortably, very sternly give correction, walk 10 ft and starts again, dumb or has an overriding emotion bred into them?
I talk to several people a week about breeding dogs, and am blow away by the guy, who calls me to tell me what a great female they have, she only has one hole, she's 50 to 60 percent accurate...... If you breed her you will get 50% her......Hope your good at picking pups

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Conrad first off I got a sorry dog. Second a then and now being how Richard told me to go look a major $$$ hunt 6 single coons high scoring dog and winner had 350+ would that been the score back in the 3 hr hunt days on 6 singles ?

They left trees and took minus.

Tar

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

In case you want to see the math 6 singles that’s 1350 + available in ukc and 1200 + available in $$$ kc.



Tar

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6539

I absolutely can not live with a dog that has bad kennel manners. This conversation reminds me of a stud dog I seen at Walker Days several years ago. The dog was highly advertised. He had 4 shock collars on, and he was still barking nonstop!

Bruce,

I am knocking on wood. Thank goodness I don't have that problem. I had a female I bought years ago. She was all coon dog, and deadly accurate. She would bark bad in the kennel, and she was sold. The guy who bought her said he could break her. He could not. She finally ended up at an ole fella's house who was hard of hearing.

That kind do not stay here.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

This is exactly why I never wanted to be a dog trainer, there are way more failures than successes. I can try a dig out and either buy or pass without spending a lot of time trying to train one that does not make the grade. I am truly thankful for ALL the dog trainers that do spend the time , without them folks like myself would never own a TOP COON DOG. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 417

You can buy them cheaper than you can raise them also I could never figure out why an average type hunters would want to sell a nice trained dog because it takes many miles to make one

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: West Kentucky
Posts: 165

Unless I have missed it in this thread, what old blood produced a pup that wasn’t bouncing off the walls and couldn’t learn to shut up in the pen?

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

Some folks just like the challenge of training a young dog, once the dog is trained the challenge is gone and they are looking for a new challenge. Now some folks only like hunting younger dogs and sell the older dogs. There are lots of reasons why a man sells a trained dog and these are only a few. Myself, I am grateful for any reason they sell if the dog suits me. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Creason
Unless I have missed it in this thread, what old blood produced a pup that wasn’t bouncing off the walls and couldn’t learn to shut up in the pen?

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
In case you want to see the math 6 singles that’s 1350 + available in ukc and 1200 + available in $$$ kc.
Tar

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Per my poor math: in PKC first coon is 200 and after that each coon is 125. That is a total of 825. You need to hunt in a major hunt. You will only get one or two dogs on each tree. Six singles means the high scoring dog treed 2 coons.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Per my poor math: in PKC first coon is 200 and after that each coon is 125. That is a total of 825. You need to hunt in a major hunt. You will only get one or two dogs on each tree. Six singles means the high scoring dog treed 2 coons.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

Mr. Lambert is just stating facts, all dogs are NOT competing for a new set if strike points on every tree, most dogs are only going to get 25 strike points after the initial set of strike points. You can only get a maximum of 25 strike points unless ALL dogs ared competing for a new set of strike points, and that's very rare. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Mr. Lambert is just stating facts, all dogs are NOT competing for a new set if strike points on every tree, most dogs are only going to get 25 strike points after the initial set of strike points. You can only get a maximum of 25 strike points unless ALL dogs ared competing for a new set of strike points, and that's very rare. Dave

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

You know how I feel, it's not competition as it was meant to be by our founders. Today's competition is a joke, striking a bugger, going 4 different ways on a bugger track and treeing hot coons a mile away. Hummmmmm. Not for me. Now a days the first set of strike ( bugger ) points determines the winner in the majority of the casts I follow in the dollar hunts. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: May 2017
Location:
Posts: 23

I would think that increasing the tree points to 125 like UKC does would help even those automatic strike dogs out. Does not make sense to me that first strike and first tree are equal.

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