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swamp1
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Registered: Aug 2012
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Y not just use "common sense" every hunt/tree is different yet all basically have things in common. Surely amongst 4 handlers theirs 1 with sense ! A cookie cutter rule is not necessary....but the use of "common sense" is !

X2, What the problem is? Get your dog or dogs together and walk reasonable distance and cut them, whether it be distance or time. If their going back it probably won't matter how far or long of time. PS, common sense and cheating don't get along, at all.

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09-27-2018 02:40 AM

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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
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quote:
Originally posted by swamp1
X2, What the problem is? Get your dog or dogs together and walk reasonable distance and cut them, whether it be distance or time. If their going back it probably won't matter how far or long of time. PS, common sense and cheating don't get along, at all.

Cookie cutter rules work great and make a judge, handler, MOH and the upper management's job easier. Guidelines cut and dry are in place for hunt, shine, squalling, tree times ect ect ect. With none of these you are pleasure hunting not competition hunting.

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09-27-2018 03:27 AM

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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2835

quote:
Originally posted by johnny reb
Ov_blues why would the one minute rule be a problem? I don't see a problem if the rule was walk one minute then cut them. What would common sense have to do with it. Just looking for the answer

Sorry, I left a little out of what I meant to say. I don�t mind the one minute rule. I�m mainly a pleasure hunter but I usually don�t even walk a minute when I recut my dogs in the same woods. But say leading dogs off of a tree in a clear cut area, or getting the dogs off of a tree and back up on a ridge to drop them on the other side of the hill, or getting a little farther off of a road might be better in a hunt. That might take a little longer than a minute and would be some examples of where a little common sense might be better than being obligated to recut right at the minute. But most of the time a minute is plenty of time from what I have seen when I�ve been in competition or pleasure hunting

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09-27-2018 04:38 AM

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johnny reb
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
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Dogs have been walked 1 minute or 30 seconds in other registry�s including clear cuts, and swamps for years and you done just that after allotted time.

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09-27-2018 06:18 AM

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pabeagler
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Registered: Nov 2013
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Posts: 195

How far do you walk if a dog is struck and out of hearing ? Do you return to last place dog was heard then start the 8 minute rule and wait . Or does the 8 start immediately and continue walking until handler is satisfied. I've had handlers argue that it was their 8 and they had the option to walk as far as needed or 8 expired . It's my understanding that you return to area where you were at last time dog was heard and start the 8 and wait . Could someone shed some light on this situation !

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09-27-2018 01:59 PM

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nextcoonhunters
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Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
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gray area

AS FAR AS THE 8 IT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED. HE WAS RIGHT, ALLEN HAS STATED THAT IT IS HIS 8, YOU CAN PROBABLY FIND IT ON ANOTHER POST.

NOW, THEN AS FAR AS THE REST OF THIS, THE ONLY TIME IT'S NOT ADDRESSED IS WHEN A DOG IS AT LARGE AND NOT OPENED. WHICH IN THAT CASE COMMON SENSE COMES INTO PLAY ( YOU USE THE PART OF 11B WHICH STATES TO COMPETE FOR NEXT AVAILABLE STRIKE POINTS WHICH IN THIS CASE IS 1ST). AS FAR AS THE TIME BEING AN ISSUSE, RULE 7C IF ALL DOGS ARE SCORED AND LEASHED CALL A TIME OUT. DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE WALKING 3 BIG STEPS OR 3 BIG MILES TIME IS CALLED. NOW IF PART OF THE DOGS ARE HANDLED AND PART NOT, AND THEY ARE STRUCK IN, YOU CAN START THE 8 AND WALK THAT WAY. WHEN THEY OPEN THAT BREAKS THE 8 AND YOU CUT TOWARDS THEM ACCORDING TO RULE 11 B. I'M ALL ABOUT HAVING IT IN BLACK AND WHITE BUT THE MINUTE THE SCORE CARD IS TO HEAVY TO PACK, OR TAKES 2 DAYS TO READ THOUGH, WE MIGHT HAVE TAKEN IT A BIT FAR.

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09-27-2018 02:46 PM

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nextcoonhunters
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Registered: Jul 2015
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THIS IS WHAT ALLEN SAID

quote:
Originally posted by pabeagler
How far do you walk if a dog is struck and out of hearing ? Do you return to last place dog was heard then start the 8 minute rule and wait . Or does the 8 start immediately and continue walking until handler is satisfied. I've had handlers argue that it was their 8 and they had the option to walk as far as needed or 8 expired . It's my understanding that you return to area where you were at last time dog was heard and start the 8 and wait . Could someone shed some light on this situation !

HERE YOU GO

Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8036

Dean, I see no good reason why the cast cannot walk in the direction of that hound, given your scenario? It's his (handler's) 8 minutes and you have no other dog struck in that is being judged?_

I'm going to assume the question really surrounds Telemetry Rule #3, which states:_
At no time may an handler demand the cast walk in the direction of a hound that has not been heard opening. The judge, or majority of cast when hunting judge is used, may agree to walk in that direction.

The purpose of Rule 3# is for dogs blowing out of pocket that have not been struck in or heard, unless the majority of the cast agrees to do so._

Your situation doesn't quite fit that rule because the dog was declared struck. However, the dog hadn't been heard since he was declared struck nearby. So the argument could definitely be made that the rule should apply and it be a majority of cast decision whether or not the cast walk in that direction. Regardless, the 8 minutes comes into play and consideration should be granted to walk in that direction. UKC has stated, in the past, that the handlers whose dogs are on the clock may choose to walk during that time period. So, I'd say that applies here even though it may be waste of walking time in your situation.

_04-04-2017_11:54 AM____

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09-27-2018 02:52 PM

ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2835

quote:
Originally posted by johnny reb
Dogs have been walked 1 minute or 30 seconds in other registry�s including clear cuts, and swamps for years and you done just that after allotted time.

I never said that walking a minute and cutting couldn�t or hasn�t been done, just don�t think in some cases it is or would be the smartest thing to do.

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09-27-2018 02:53 PM

swamp1
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quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Cookie cutter rules work great and make a judge, handler, MOH and the upper management's job easier. Guidelines cut and dry are in place for hunt, shine, squalling, tree times ect ect ect. With none of these you are pleasure hunting not competition hunting.

X2, its not real complicated, really pretty simple going by the rules. Its when the 2 turns into 1 and half or maybe turns into5 or 8 turns into 6 or 10 .round here thats makes for complicated interpretations come into play. It happens. In these parts, lol I'll go out on a limb here, 80% of the time theres no such thing as pleasure hunting even if you're trying.

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09-27-2018 04:13 PM

johnny reb
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 856

Ov_blues why wouldn't it be the smartest thing to do. Not trying to argue so if it comes across that way I apologize. Just wondering g why it wouldn't be the thing to do

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09-27-2018 08:05 PM

nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Re: Leading off of a tree

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
All right Allen, the World is over and it is time to go back to work. How far are we supposed to lead dogs off a tree before we cut them loose?
1. Immediately
2. A specified distance or time
3. It is up to the judge
4. It is up to the handler

If all the dogs are handled I leave it up to the guide. whether to recut or move I assume he knows best, for the area he hunts and is guiding in. Not sure what the ? is I guess if not all dogs are handled is what you are talking about. If not that would be odd to make a rule that says you walk the dogs for a min. then recut, I guess moving to a new area would be out of the ?.

Last edited by nextcoonhunters on 09-27-2018 at 10:54 PM

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09-27-2018 10:22 PM

khester7923
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2003
Location: soddy daisy,tennessee
Posts: 448

is there not a specific rule that covers recast? i was always under the impression you walked a min before recast. is this a rule or just something that has been kinda handed down over time?

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09-30-2018 02:22 PM

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Redneck Mafia
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quote:
Originally posted by khester7923
is there not a specific rule that covers recast? i was always under the impression you walked a min before recast. is this a rule or just something that has been kinda handed down over time?

That rule is from another kc. There is no time specification in UKC.

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09-30-2018 03:28 PM

ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2835

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
That rule is from another kc. There is no time specification in UKC.

If UKC adopted the minute rule for recasting wouldn�t they almost have to add the scratching rule for returning to a scored tree twice?

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09-30-2018 09:34 PM

shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3370

Does any of this matter if you train your dog to go hunting and not back to the same tree when recast? Having said that, mine is not trained. She will go back.

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09-30-2018 10:28 PM