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edwardfasteddy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 510

Most.... of the time when you have a dog that shows he is starting to reproduce he is already 5 or 6. Then the word gets around and he's now 7 or 8 and the owner is going to freeze his semen and that's questionable. Then you go to his Sire and he is 10 to 12 years old to breed a granddaughter and he is maybe alive, maybe sterile, maybe just to old. Breeding dogs like that sounds good but it takes years to do that and by then a new generation of coon hunters are around and not interested in what your doing.. They want the Next BIG THING! So can that idea......

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Old Post 01-17-2020 01:51 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 977

In the past I verified the bloodline and bought 5 pups and hunted them by time they were a year old there was no doubt which ones were on there way to making good dogs...I used the best male for breeding once and then bred his son twice and his grandson many times...the females I only bred once and then bred their daughters once...all females only once until I felt the bloodline was pretty much the type of dogs I liked...one female I bred twice early on because she produced well for another breeder and she was a 3/4 Texas Smoke female...she produced hard hunting and gritty pups...all dogs used for breeding were pretty much what I liked...natural ability and performance was what I wanted more than anything...quick striking and sticking with it was important...winding and trailing and finding the hot end of the tracks pretty quick were very important to me...color and mouth were important but not a deal breaker...starting with the right bloodline it is doable...but these were hunting dogs and not competition dogs even though I felt I could hunt these dogs with any dogs and my dogs would look good in any company...

I kept 4 or 5 pups from each litter and slowly culled back to Two pups...I tested all pups and hunted them and selected accordingly...I looked for natural ability and I felt one of the most important things to do is in selecting the very best puppy possible because not only was it for hunting but also my hopes were that it would be good enough for breeding...the idea is that each generation should be an improvement over the last...towards the end I was getting to much hunt and too much grit at times...

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Old Post 01-20-2020 01:58 AM
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bsilvers1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: chatsworth,ga
Posts: 137

I think we need to forget about the science behind breeding other than health issues. If u find a dog that has traits u like keep it around and breed it and keep some of those offsprings and breed them. By doing this the traits u like will show up in most of the offsprings in some way or form. Im not saying all will be coon dogs but i dont think you could ever figure out a complete science that garantees a coon dog. Even if u cloned the dogs dna like they do bucking bulls it wont be the same dog, it will be close but still different. Breed and hunt them no one litter has all been coon dogs. Dont take wrong i find genetics and biology very interesting but i dont understand it a whole lot. If i find two dogs that i like their traits i breed them. Simple as that.

Last edited by bsilvers1 on 01-22-2020 at 04:19 PM

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Old Post 01-22-2020 04:17 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4410

.

Mr. silvers I tend to agree with you. I never pattered the pedigrees to see how to do it. Just to see if I could find a pattern on what worked in the past and worked to get some good dogs. I think you need a good dog and a determined owner and great things can happen.
The most important thing I feel. I if they don't work out in the breeding pen as the owner would like. Just be honest about it and move on. To many breeders invest a lot of time and money into something not working like it should. But they have to much invested to face the facts.

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Old Post 01-22-2020 11:39 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 977

In another thread folks were talking about Zeb3 being the real deal that reproduced himself and included producing world champions...looking back on his pedigree it seems he is related to top hounds...if I wanted some potentially top coon hounds I would look for a niece or daughter and breed to Zeb3...in no time I would have a whole litter to choose from...in my mind that is the fastest way to purifying the bloodline

The dams side must show some of the greats from the sires side...

I donít know if that qualifies as patterning a pedigree...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 01-23-2020 02:08 AM
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edwardfasteddy
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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 510

Down!

Last edited by edwardfasteddy on 01-23-2020 at 03:43 AM

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Old Post 01-23-2020 03:39 AM
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edwardfasteddy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 510

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
Patterning a pedigree could be a very useful tool for someone who will research it correctly, maybe following some sort of system like Bruce has implied on how he uses it...the walker breed is definitely a good breed to use this method because of all the options with so many well known dogs and pedigrees...

If I were to use a system of this type I would map it out and follow a system as I will list below...just a quick example off the top of my head...
If I were to see a family of dogs that produced 50 percent of really good hunting dogs and 20 percent of outstanding dogs...I would study the dogs and decide which dogs are the best at performing and whom I think has the best dogs close up in the pedigree on a particular dog...selecting that one dog is key...maybe that one dog will a a pup out of that one dog...either way that one dog will be the hub of the breeding program...but we will say it is the original dog from the pedigree...I would then buy littermate granddaughters to that dog...the dam to the granddaughters needs to be an above average hunting dog and also needs to be related to her sire...the best granddaughter gets bred back to the grand sire...the thing about these top hunting and champion dogs is that they are bred to many females...I wouldnít worry about what everyone else is doing...but when another female that someone else owns that is related to the original sire is also well known for being an outstanding female and she gets bred to the original sire...and she has pups out of him I would buy several males off of that litter...I would then breed the best male from those pups to the original granddaughter that I decided was the best of the two sisters...now I have a half brother and a half sister and I can breed them to each other...and the pups produced from that litter I can breed the best female pup back to the great grand sire...there are several scenarios one can take but I believe we must create a plan and stick with it...we can not be changing directions...we must trust in our knowledge...there is greatness in this blood...we just need to pick the right pups...

In my opinion when a breeder is breeding many different females to his stud because he is a world champion then there will be many culls on account of him getting bred to females that more often than not have a stacked pedigree of not many good hunting dogs...

I am not a breeder but I like breeding my own dogs because I am hard to please...

Just asking, But what for big time dogs did you breed up using this method?

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Old Post 01-23-2020 03:42 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 977

quote:
Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
Just asking, But what for big time dogs did you breed up using this method?


None...and never been to a coon dog competition hunt...

Iíve seen a few good hounds in the hog hunting world and it seems more folks are realizing that some of these dogs make top hog dogs...many add hound to the curs...
I have tried plotts but so far am not satisfied with them...

I have bred Mt curs for 6 and 7 generations that hunted as good as any dog...and if we know dogs there isnít more to say about that...

The dogs I have now do not satisfy me and I would cull half of them if I didnít need them...

Thatís how I got on this site...so far have struck out on the plotts...maybe need to look at Plott coondogs and not bear dogs... I think the right walker might be what I need...

Breeding better dogs is best when we breeding the best with the best and keeping them related...simple as that...and starting out with the best...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 01-25-2020 04:01 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1361

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
None...and never been to a coon dog competition hunt...

Iíve seen a few good hounds in the hog hunting world and it seems more folks are realizing that some of these dogs make top hog dogs...many add hound to the curs...
I have tried plotts but so far am not satisfied with them...

I have bred Mt curs for 6 and 7 generations that hunted as good as any dog...and if we know dogs there isnít more to say about that...

The dogs I have now do not satisfy me and I would cull half of them if I didnít need them...

Thatís how I got on this site...so far have struck out on the plotts...maybe need to look at Plott coondogs and not bear dogs... I think the right walker might be what I need...

Breeding better dogs is best when we breeding the best with the best and keeping them related...simple as that...and starting out with the best...



Maybe I'm missing something. If 1/2 of your dogs don't suit you, why would you breed them? That in itself is playing with fire imo. Why not try to find better than what you currently have? There isn't a fix all. And I'm positive you know that. But I've been racking my brain to understand why you're willing to breed the stock you have instead of finding better.

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Old Post 01-26-2020 12:33 AM
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thomasg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1085

I have been testing for auto immune antibodies that are known marker for the recessive traits that are responsible for the thyroid problems we see in our hounds , then I do a pedigree study ,3 dogs tested positive for the anti bodies ,the results of my pedigree pattering have be grim indeed , my vet charges me 20 $ to send samples to texas a m whos cost is 15 $ , you can learn a lot for 75 $.

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Old Post 01-27-2020 01:30 AM
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thomasg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1085

I have been testing for auto immune antibodies that are known marker for the recessive traits that are responsible for the thyroid problems we see in our hounds , then I do a pedigree study ,3 dogs tested positive for the anti bodies ,the results of my pedigree pattering have be grim indeed , my vet charges me 20 $ to send samples to texas a m whos cost is 15 $ , you can learn a lot for 75 $.

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