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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

Whatís the ultimate pleasure hound? Can he win the big hunt

In your minds eye...what is the ultimate pleasure hound?
Can this hound win the big hunts?

Also keep mind the size of places to hunt, age of hunters that pleasure hunt etc...etc...

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Cory Highfill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 963

I'm hunting a dog right now that is an absolute pleasure to hunt, but I don't know that he would ever win much at a high level.
He goes hunting good enough without being ridiculous, is pretty straight, opens the right way and produces a coon a high percentage of the time.
BUT...
He can get bogged down around water, or on a rough track that he probably shouldn't even be messing with. He usually produces the coon, but with the population we have here, he would make much better use of his time (and mine) if he'd skip through the country and find a more manageable track.

This morning about three o'clock I was thinking about this very topic while listening to ol blue trail. He hooted down a treeline, and into a big beaver pond, made his way across the dam opening here and there, and bogged down hard crossing a hay meadow covered in frost. He treed this coon in a big spread out oak on the far side of the meadow after trailing nearly an hour and covering 3/4 of a mile. A hot nosed dog probably wouldn't have touched this track, and in all probability would have sailed another mile through the country and popped up a coon in someone's back yard in half the time. But it was an absolute pleasure to sit and listen to him trail, and a pleasure to walk to a tree confident in what I'd find.

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Old Post 12-15-2019 08:21 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

Mr. Cory...I am pretty sure I would really like that dog of yours if I were a coon Hunter... I am sure that I wouldnít want to give up a decent nose over a hotter nosed dog just to be able to win...now if he could make the track look easy he would probably be a big contender in any hunt...again I agree with you...you have a really nice hound...

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Old Post 12-15-2019 08:35 PM
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jkidd1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2283

Reuben, I hunted a good old fashioned pleasure dog in the hunts for awhile. He belongs to my buddy but was born here at my house. He is generally a last strike dog, was usually off to himself but not one of those who ran away from dogs, he would tree them at 30yards or a mile away, he didn't care if something treed with him, but if it got heated he'd leave (which I didn't like). He usually made half the trees the other dogs did in a cast but had a knack for having his coon on the outside, like I said few trees but coon, not slicks and dens generally. Never need a leash, can call him off a tree across a river and he will carry every coon back to the truck and drop it and load himself in the box. Smart hound that is a pleasure, not perfect but a real pleasure. I placed him in the Grand 16 @ Autumn Oaks, 2nd @ the Winter Classic in MS and won over $1,000 in PKC. The $$ was all one in under two months with me working 60hrs a week. He showed me pleasure dogs can hold their own in these hunts.

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MANIAC'S HAIR TRIGGER
(Maniac Jr X Jr's Janey)

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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3716

Cory Highfill

He probably won't win any big hunts by cold trailing, but that's what it takes to suit me in these mountains with thin coons. Dave

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2132

Any dog that hustles and has their coon is usually a pleasure to hunt and will win big if they catch a break.

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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1327

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Any dog that hustles and has their coon is usually a pleasure to hunt and will win big if they catch a break.


I agree, only thing I'll add is a dog that can accurately tree layups is worth a bunch to me. I normally can't hunt during the spring and summer (construction season) but I go as much as I can during late fall and winter. I'm not sure about the coon population around you but here in December you normally find out what you're leading rather quickly.

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wart
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 144

Pleasure

The great bone collector was said to be a top end meat dog the could tree them coons he won a little the English dog named hillbilly Mike won a few he was a coon dog type

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Old Post 12-16-2019 12:40 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

Iím thinking with internet hunting eventually everyone will at least know what a real pleasure coon hound is and those hunters will raise their standards accordingly...

For the titled competition dogs with the big holes...hopefully the rules will keep changing so that it will become harder for these types of dogs to receive championships... nothing is foolproof but at least things can gravitate towards having better dogs in the future...

A quote from Cory Highfill...I thought it was worth copying and pasting...see his words below...

I think winners can be pleasurable to hunt, and pleasure dogs can be winners. But I think there are alot of dogs that get called "pleasure dogs" because they just aren't much good, and there are "competition dogs" with glaring holes and weaknesses, that are being exploited because the rules encourage their faults.

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Old Post 12-16-2019 01:34 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3716

Reuben

I agree with Cory Highfill and his statement is certainly worth reposting. Some define a pleasure dog as one that does not have the necessary qualities of a competition dog and a competition dog as one that does not meet the standards of a pleasure dog. Myself, I refuse either of those definitions as being accurate, I think a top coon dog is just that a true competition dog and a real pleasure dog as well. Now they are not many that excell at both only because they are not many real coon dogs, never was! The 3 dogs that I have owned and hunted that I called real coon dogs were ALL 3 top competition and top pleasure hunting dogs. I have owned dogs that were good competition dogs and a bunch that were good pleasure dogs, but none if them were what I called a top coon dog. There are a few dogs being hunted today that win big and are a real pleasure to hunt ( Cheyenne Cummings dog and John Big Country dog are 2 that comes to mind) both are what any man would call a top coon dog. A coon dog is both, the better the dog the better they are in competition and pleasure hunting. Personally, I would not give a dime for any dog that I did not love to pleasure hunt, no matter how many hunts it had won or could win. Dave

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Sfox91
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2019
Location: East central indiana
Posts: 43

My dog is not a pleasure to hunt, but he has been known to get some CWís when I take him to town. I Canít hardly get anybody to pleasure hunt with me 🤣

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jkidd1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2283

Sam your dog usually has a coon in the tree, that's a pleasure to me and that little black yota makes the trips to him shorter. See ol buddy look at the bright side lol.

__________________
AFTER DARK KENNELS

JEREMY KIDD
765-520-1552


*females*
GRNITECH' JR'S JANEY
(Xjr X Insane Jane)

GRNITECH' AFTER DARK'S JAN-IT
(Sweat It X Janey)

DUAL GRNITE' LONETREE LEGEND (R.I.P.)
(Noct. Style X Southern Sky)

GRNITECH' STYLISH LITTLE PEG(R.I.P.)
(Trackman X Browns Little Peg)

GRNITECH' DIAMOND LINDA
(Briar Crk Drum X Collins Ann)

GRNITECH' TOO TALL TAYLOR
(Harry X N. Mt. Nail)

GRNITECH 'PR' JANEY'S GOTTA GUN
(Wild Card X Jr's Janey)

MANIAC'S HAIR TRIGGER
(Maniac Jr X Jr's Janey)

NITECH' SEVEN MILE SLOOPY(R.I.P.)
(Skipper x Big time Trixie)

Proud to be a UNION LINEMAN
https://i.postimg.cc/654pWfzm/IMG-1920.png
I.B.E.W. LOCAL 1393

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Old Post 12-16-2019 12:32 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4330

.

Ruben, I have always felt the rules dictate over time the style of dog most will have. But the truth is 50 years ago you seen the changes sooner in the dogs than you will today. Just because of the number of dogs out there and people are not rushing to the next world champion (or winner) like they did in the past. So rule changes will not have much affect of our future dogs. I will make this prediction now. The changes you will see. Is the top winning dogs that are criticized on here now. Will migrate over to UKC for some of that money. They will take it. And put many of the older UKC folks on the sidelines and probably give Alan a few more gray hairs. Actually if anyone looked at the entries it already happened with the old Grand Masters events. Several top winners with styles we criticize on here took some of that money home.

There are a lot of top hounds being hunted in completion hunts. Every time I start to think that a dog hunting hard and not quitting takes away the pleasure of the hunt. I go back 50 years in my memory bank to the dogs that wouldn't hunt around a 5 acre pond without me following them. The difference between then and today is. Then you could walk your dogs for miles and when they treed they were perhaps only a few hundred yards from you. But you still walked miles. Or today you can sit on the tailgate and complain you have to walk 800 yards to dog that hunted on its own. The old guys complain they wouldn't walk that far to a dog and they don't need to hunt that far. Yet how far did the old timers use walk their dogs before they struck. MILES.

A top pleasure dog can be a top competition dog.

Hate to agree to much with Josh. LOL He used the word hustle. Which is about the only separation between the two type of GOOD hounds. That is of course if the owner has standards and holds the dog to them. If you have a sorry hound and call it a pleasure dog. Thats your problem. If you have a crazy dog and call it a competition dog. Thats your fault. There should be a place for sorry and crazy. But in todays world, that place has been forgotten about.

Dave talks about cold trailing. I hope most people realize that if they hunt one dog. That dog has ability that should not change much from day to day. On the other hand everyday is a different day when it comes to the ability a dog needs to tree a coon. Animal feed times and movement change daily. Average Temperatures change monthly. Humidity changes daily. There is not one dog that is hunted at 8PM everyday going to operate the same each and everyday. But some of the overall weather and moon cycles will give you dogs style a edge one night and might not another. The thing is in competition your not hunting against conditions but the other dogs. So conditions that might make it hard for your dog to tree a coon one night. Would make it impossible for another dog to tree one. That is what competition determines. The best dog for the conditions that they are hunted in. Conditions change and that is why there is not ONE BEST dog when it comes to coonhunting. It comes down to the one that tries the hardest in the hardest conditions. Then we get on these boards and discet one or two nights the dog has to work hard for a coon and put it down for hunting to hard. They are the same dog with the ability to tree one a few hundred yards from you. That is if the coon is two hundred yards away.

One more time. Crazy and Loafers are both dogs with faults. Don't blame the dogs if the owners tote them around bragging on them. And if the owner got lucky and won a little with either one. Don't be fooled to think you need one like that.

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

Dave...I totally agree with you...a great hunting dog should look good in any company anytime and anywhere...you can cast him with 3 world champions and that pleasure hound wonít look bad...we should be able to see the much difference in the 4 dogs...

The great ones donít have bad days...

The thing is that sometimes we have to settle for less...and when we do what is the absolute minimum we will accept in a coon dog that keeps him from being a cull?
Which we should discuss on another thread...after all there are many coon dogs that fit this description...

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Old Post 12-16-2019 01:34 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9810

Bruce

I donít know why most people associate cold trailing with not having hustle and slow.


Most top competition hunters want their dog to operate at a certain mile per hour on the Garmin some speeds are so fast that the only way a dog can achieve that is to pick their head up and blow out.


Definitely not cold trailing !!


But you are going to see a lot of old doggies back on the scene that you havenít seen in years and they know how to give the young folks grey hairs lol.


Tar

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Old Post 12-16-2019 01:38 PM
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Sfox91
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2019
Location: East central indiana
Posts: 43

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
Sam your dog usually has a coon in the tree, that's a pleasure to me and that little black yota makes the trips to him shorter. See ol buddy look at the bright side lol.


Says the guy that I can only get to come hunt with me once a month and only lives 25 min away lol.

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jkidd1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2283

Sam, its a lot like havin an ugly wife, my young dogs are about the same, you ain't too proud to show them off lol.

__________________
AFTER DARK KENNELS

JEREMY KIDD
765-520-1552


*females*
GRNITECH' JR'S JANEY
(Xjr X Insane Jane)

GRNITECH' AFTER DARK'S JAN-IT
(Sweat It X Janey)

DUAL GRNITE' LONETREE LEGEND (R.I.P.)
(Noct. Style X Southern Sky)

GRNITECH' STYLISH LITTLE PEG(R.I.P.)
(Trackman X Browns Little Peg)

GRNITECH' DIAMOND LINDA
(Briar Crk Drum X Collins Ann)

GRNITECH' TOO TALL TAYLOR
(Harry X N. Mt. Nail)

GRNITECH 'PR' JANEY'S GOTTA GUN
(Wild Card X Jr's Janey)

MANIAC'S HAIR TRIGGER
(Maniac Jr X Jr's Janey)

NITECH' SEVEN MILE SLOOPY(R.I.P.)
(Skipper x Big time Trixie)

Proud to be a UNION LINEMAN
https://i.postimg.cc/654pWfzm/IMG-1920.png
I.B.E.W. LOCAL 1393

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Fisher13
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2011

Pleasure Dogs

I won't hunt a dog that isn't my style to hunt. If I don't like the dog I'm hunting for the sake of winning any hunt whats the point? To win with a dog I hate?

Most pleasure dogs are pleasure dogs for a reason, they have a glaring fault that prevents them from winning. There just average nothing top caliber. Either Finicky hunters, or to slow on track, or just to slow all around, not accurate enough, etc etc

A cold nose trailing dog can certainly win in the hunts as long as they are capable of moving a cold track. Most of the best I hunted with were this type.

For some reason a lot of folks have a belief that all comp dogs are hot nosed. This just isn't the case imo.

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3716

Bruce Conkey

Enjoyed your post, it contained so much factual information, you are 100 per cent correct about the hunting conditions playing a big factor in the type of dog that wins a certain hunt. I have followed a few dogs ( unnamed by choice ) and could almost predict if they would win based on the weather during the hunt. Taking nothing away from any dog, some just operate better in certain weather conditions. It's rare to ever have everything we want wrapped up in one package or dog, but man when it happens, you got that something special. A top coon hound just makes any condition look good or at least better than the rest can make it look. Dave

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N Williams
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 1132

you Can win alit with a slow dog that doesnít make mistakes. We have won about $1600 with the one I got now. Think sheís won 8 out of 13 cast since I bought her. Land 12 she could have won. Your always saying. If I had 2 more minutes or if I has a 100 instead of 75 extra. She has not drew but 150 total minus and all the minus was bad breaks. Like 6 catching her b/c she was out of hearing and handler treed her once when she wasnít. She is a trailing type dog that barks non stop while she is trailing and moves the track but moves it slow. She just makes dogs pay for minus and always gives you a chance to win because she makes it count when you tree her in. She only trees because she has to and I promise she donít wonít to. Most pleasurable dog Iíve ever hunted. Walker female. 90% of dogs on her papers Iíve never heard of. Can she win big. In harsh conditions Thin coon Iíd say most certainly.

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oklared
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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 4468

WHAT DOES PLEASURE HOUNDS DO? WHAT DO COMP HOUNDS DO ?

TREE COONS

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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 593

ULTIMATE COONHOUND

The ultimate coonhound trees the "most coon in the least amount of time, in the least amount of realistate".
They will not only win, but dominate the cast!

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ssgied
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: tn
Posts: 644

I pleasure hunt more now than I comp hunt and can say with all honesty that I demand the same performance from a dog as I did while comp hunting. I like a trailing type dog. The way a dog trees a coon is far more important to me than the number of coons treed! To say that a pleasure dog canít win or they must have huge holes is just plain silly. The group of pleasure hunters that I hunt with are very competitive and demand performance and ability based on their preferred style of dog.

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

Re: ULTIMATE COONHOUND

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
The ultimate coonhound trees the "most coon in the least amount of time, in the least amount of realistate".
They will not only win, but dominate the cast!



👍...I like what you said...

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
I pleasure hunt more now than I comp hunt and can say with all honesty that I demand the same performance from a dog as I did while comp hunting. I like a trailing type dog. The way a dog trees a coon is far more important to me than the number of coons treed! To say that a pleasure dog canít win or they must have huge holes is just plain silly. The group of pleasure hunters that I hunt with are very competitive and demand performance and ability based on their preferred style of dog.


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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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