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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17442

Rule Changes

Can anyone explain to me why the Rules needed to be changed or what the reasoning behind the rule changes was? Why do we now need to change our rules to give silent completely independent dogs that refuse to tree with other dogs an advantage? I understand that some hunters prefer this type of hound. But why should they have an advantage over hunters that don't prefer this type of hound? Before both types of hounds could compete but now the dog that refuses to back another dog has a definite advantage.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 09-06-2019 at 02:29 PM

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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1190

Re: Rule Changes

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Can anyone explain to me why the Rules needed to be changed or what the reasoning behind the rule changes was? Why do we now need to change our rules to give silent completely independent dogs that refuse to tree with other dogs an advantage? I understand that some hunters prefer this type of hound. But why should they have an advantage over hunters that don't prefer this type of hound? Before both types of hounds could compete but now the dog that refuses to back another dog has a definite advantage.





If you think a silent dog has the advantage, buy 1 or train 1 and find out. A silent dog doesn't have an advantage. Only thing that it will effect is dog that me too can't cover it and get undeserved points. Silent dogs get last strike on 90% of those casts. So if you're hunting an open trailer it has a 25-75 point advantage on every track & tree. And the rules changes and hunt format changes were done to try n get the guys like myself that have never hunted in ukc to hunt third hunts. And or to get guys that just don't hunt third hunt often to enter more often. Guys like myself hunt the other KC's because we liked the rules and format better. And you tend to draw better dogs at the other kc's in general.

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Old Post 09-06-2019 02:51 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4162

.

Richard if we were honest with ourselves. We would understand that there have been many silent dogs that have earned a night champion degree. Also very few if any have ever been scratched for being silent. So allowing silent dogs should be the least of our concern for the future of coon hunting.

The independent dogs speak for themselves. For years, many have won and the winners got bred. For years those with the genetics to not be loaners they have been trained to be alone. Apparently the competition side of the coon hound world wants and likes a loaner.

Everything runs its course. I remember discussions from 40 years ago from those that judged that started running into independent dogs. It brought a new concept of the judge keeping control of the cast.

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Old Post 09-06-2019 04:30 PM
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jawscardodger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 893

90% of these independent dogs are man made and its not a pretty site the way most of these dogs are trained. Myself and a friend both have pups to train and its not something we want to put are dogs thru.

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Old Post 09-06-2019 04:41 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17442

Since silent dogs haven't been scratched why did that rule need to be changed?
Since independent dogs have been winning the hunts, why did that rule need to be changed?
Since we already had the option to turn a dog loose if all dogs weren't treed, why did that rule need to be changed?

I don't understand why these changes needed to be made. Why are some saying that UKC was in such a decline compared to the other KC's? UKC and PKC are both holding their own. Coonhunters are declining in general. A lot are holding up PKC rules as the standard but these new rule changes are nothing like PKC rules. CHKC who these rules are modeled after is declining very fast. I just don't understand the reasoning but as Tarbaby says, maybe my thought process is faulty.

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Old Post 09-06-2019 04:54 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17442

Bruce, the young people that I talk to have a problem with
1. Not winning money at UKC hunts
2. Not every cast having a winner.

UKC has remedied #1 with the mini slams and that has helped but I don't think that we will ever be willing to have a winner with no plus points.

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Old Post 09-06-2019 05:00 PM
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natnicegg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2018
Location:
Posts: 60

Re: Re: Rule Changes

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
If you think a silent dog has the advantage, buy 1 or train 1 and find out. A silent dog doesn't have an advantage. Only thing that it will effect is dog that me too can't cover it and get undeserved points. Silent dogs get last strike on 90% of those casts. So if you're hunting an open trailer it has a 25-75 point advantage on every track & tree. And the rules changes and hunt format changes were done to try n get the guys like myself that have never hunted in ukc to hunt third hunts. And or to get guys that just don't hunt third hunt often to enter more often. Guys like myself hunt the other KC's because we liked the rules and format better. And you tend to draw better dogs at the other kc's in general.




For someone just getting back into competition hunting, share if you will what you prefer about the other kc rules over UKC. Thank you sir.

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Old Post 09-06-2019 05:01 PM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 239

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Since silent dogs haven't been scratched why did that rule need to be changed?
Since independent dogs have been winning the hunts, why did that rule need to be changed?
Since we already had the option to turn a dog loose if all dogs weren't treed, why did that rule need to be changed?

I don't understand why these changes needed to be made. Why are some saying that UKC was in such a decline compared to the other KC's? UKC and PKC are both holding their own. Coonhunters are declining in general. A lot are holding up PKC rules as the standard but these new rule changes are nothing like PKC rules. CHKC who these rules are modeled after is declining very fast. I just don't understand the reasoning but as Tarbaby says, maybe my thought process is faulty.

Pkc is now the only one with the leash lock. They are having their problems to. Chkc is going through new management. Young people will be where the money is . Ukc has something now that they will like, they will come. Keeping plus points in my opinion should never get voted out. Just because money is involved doesn’t mean a thing to me. It has been said with the money involved some one has to win. The win at all cost has hurt things more than help. Why work for better dogs when you can still win with minus. But most are won with plus points.

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Old Post 09-06-2019 05:38 PM
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