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To the 1st part of the question the answer is No. Most independent dogs have excellent hearing, just not an inclination to pack or do what 3 other dogs are already doing. To the 2nd part the answer is No. A real coondog will strike, run, and tree without any help. (Fear or jealousy) would be more likely involved with pack/cover dogs as many are afraid to be alone and out of jealousy will make the same tree as others.

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Shane

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Lovis, I would take a look at PA Sniper if you are looking for independence.

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Jealousy in dogs is extremely common, very few people recognize it because they don't won't to see it or don't know what they are looking at. You are spot on, independent dogs are dogs that take whatever track they are given and move it whether they are alone or have help. When we say pack to another dog we don't mean run at his pace we mean hark to his strike, if your dog is truly independent and special he should overtake that track and leave the packed up dogs behind and tree that coon regardless if the others quit or whatever. Which brings me back to my thoughts that if you boys wanting to hunt jealous dogs were to hunt in thin coons you more than likely would be out of the dog business in a short time. It doesn't take much dog to look good where game is thick!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ghost14
Jealousy in dogs is extremely common, very few people recognize it because they don't won't to see it or don't know what they are looking at. You are spot on, independent dogs are dogs that take whatever track they are given and move it whether they are alone or have help. When we say pack to another dog we don't mean run at his pace we mean hark to his strike, if your dog is truly independent and special he should overtake that track and leave the packed up dogs behind and tree that coon regardless if the others quit or whatever. Which brings me back to my thoughts that if you boys wanting to hunt jealous dogs were to hunt in thin coons you more than likely would be out of the dog business in a short time. It doesn't take much dog to look good where game is thick!

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I've seen one treeing walker female, one Black and Tan female about 16 years ago, one Original Mountain Cur and one Kemmer cur that I would call a coon dog at this point in my life. No line or breed produces consistent coon dogs that I've seen. Then again, few people have actually seen a real coon dog. I'll drop a real bomb on you now, if you're treeing more than 4 or 5 den trees in every 50 trees you've not got a great coon dog. If your coons are running more than 15 or 20 mins once you get them running, you ain't got much to brag about. I'm not talking cold trailing either. I mean a running race. If you can't kill coons out of 92% or higher trees your dog trees on out of every 100 you don't have the type of dog we like to follow. I say 92% because I've seen it done. I kept detailed records when we hunted hard. If I walk up and down these bluffs to 5 slick trees he won't tree a 6th. I've enjoyed accurate, no nonsense dogs from three different hunters who are all under the same opinion that very few people know what a real coon dog is capable of. We went looking to buy one a couple years ago and boy did we get dissapointed by the fact that people are calling junk "coon dogs" now days because a plaque says he's a Grand Night Champion. I watched two titled dogs run deer all over the country while we knocked out coons to Chris's bell dog. Full moon nights, thunderstorms with rain so hard you can't look up for fear of drowning, snow, and Ice. These dogs treed coons in all of it. That's why I won't hunt Jealous crap and that's why I won't settle for anything less, because I know what can be! You ever heard the saying don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining. That's the way I feel when I here people repeat ignorant crap they've heard from other morons! A great dog is what you boys are in search of, don't sell yourself short by telling yourself a dog covering another dogs strike can't win a hunt. If the rules allow a lesser dog to win then something is bad wrong with the rules. But what do I know!

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quote:

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
To the 1st part of the question the answer is No. Most independent dogs have excellent hearing, just not an inclination to pack or do what 3 other dogs are already doing.

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92/100 coon seen,less than 4/50 dens, 4 coondogs in 16 years 2 being curs, and of course dogs who will not cover others because they're jealous and have to find their own coon. Interesting reading.

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The only thing I wonder is when people post stuff like that why aren't they trying to win 30k world hints or nationals. Hell I think chkc gave away 40k at their world hunt. If you say hunt wins don't mean they're coondog, well if you take 92% hound to these hunts you'll win a lot of casts. Go turn a dog loose with 1 running junk, 1 split treed, yours treed and 1 running back and forth between your tree and the other guys tree. You'll find out what you have. That's why I don't put any weight on the htx title. Any dog should be Abel to tree a coon alone, put them in a bad situation and you'll seperate the men from the boys.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sparky
The only thing I wonder is when people post stuff like that why aren't they trying to win 30k world hints or nationals. Hell I think chkc gave away 40k at their world hunt. If you say hunt wins don't mean they're coondog, well if you take 92% hound to these hunts you'll win a lot of casts. Go turn a dog loose with 1 running junk, 1 split treed, yours treed and 1 running back and forth between your tree and the other guys tree. You'll find out what you have. That's why I don't put any weight on the htx title. Any dog should be Abel to tree a coon alone, put them in a bad situation and you'll seperate the men from the boys.

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Where you been Sparky? I wouldn't worry about the 92% or the 4 den tree's out of 50. Now don't be telling old Ghostbuster I told you this but did you see where he gives dogs 15 to 20 minutes to run a running coon before they tree, geesh what does he do put hobbles on them so they can only crawl at a snails pace. This is also in a place where coon are real thin so you don't need to worry about dogs crossing another track an switching. I read another post that he said coon were so thin that you cut loose at dark and finally get to the tree at daylight. So the reason they only make 4 dens out of 50 is because the dens have rotted out and fallin over before the dogs ever get to the tree. Now don't be saying this out loud as I wouldn't want the Ghostbusters bubble blown and think it rained in his cheerios..

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quote:

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Originally posted by berger
Where you been Sparky? I wouldn't worry about the 92% or the 4 den tree's out of 50. Now don't be telling old Ghostbuster I told you this but did you see where he gives dogs 15 to 20 minutes to run a running coon before they tree, geesh what does he do put hobbles on them so they can only crawl at a snails pace. This is also in a place where coon are real thin so you don't need to worry about dogs crossing another track an switching. I read another post that he said coon were so thin that you cut loose at dark and finally get to the tree at daylight. So the reason they only make 4 dens out of 50 is because the dens have rotted out and fallin over before the dogs ever get to the tree. Now don't be saying this out loud as I wouldn't want the Ghostbusters bubble blown and think it rained in his cheerios..

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Berger, I don't expect to see very many dogs in my lifetime that can do what I described. I watched it with my own two eyes 6 nights a week. I didn't own a hair on the dogs head. Don't care if you believe it or not. Their are a couple men reading this that have seen what I'm talking about but most are fly by night dog men who fade away when the money runs out! Believe it or not Berger, some men are not drivin by money or pats on the back!

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I've learned one thing about reading these posts over the years: Excellent hunting, extremely accurate coonhounds are seldom competition hunted and never for sale! There's a vast difference in dogs, geography, coon population and hunters, but a top coonhound should operate the same regardless. I know I'd like to hunt where foliage allows the shining of 92/100 trees and 8 dens per 100 though.

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Shane, after I had hunted with this dog for one year I suggested to her owner that we see just how special she was. I'd be lying if I said we didn't spend an eternity at some trees in sept. and Oct. to make for certain the coon was there or not. Nov. thru April we have no leaves. We can't hunt June 1 - Aug. 14. 100% of our hunting is done on public land. I know it's hard to believe but if you really love following dogs eventually you will see dogs do things you never thought possible. I used to think John Wick was full of bull about a dog going hunting with a female in full blown heat standing in front of him. Then I watched it happen in my own yard and had to swallow my foot!

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Lovis I will get back to the question my Runt and my Black Bart dog is Robinson breed runt with more out crossing, both dogs will be by there self 65% of the time. I have seen alot of robinson breed dogs in the past 25 years most of them were very ind pendant, i be leave you have to go with the blood lines verses one dog inpertickler but i will say RUNT or BART is your man. thats just my way of thanking.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Orville White J
Lovis I will get back to the question my Runt and my Black Bart dog is Robinson breed runt with more out crossing, both dogs will be by there self 65% of the time. I have seen alot of robinson breed dogs in the past 25 years most of them were very ind pendant, i be leave you have to go with the blood lines verses one dog inpertickler but i will say RUNT or BART is your man. thats just my way of thanking.

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Well thanks for your responses guys. Even though some were off my actually question. Good discussion.

I will say, from what I've read. We don't have a particular line of dogs that throws a strong trait of independence. We get it in a few dogs here and there. And it can come from several different lines.

Keep'em in the woods guys!

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Lovis,
Thunder was always naturally independent even as a pup and was TOUGH to train around here due to lack of amount of coons. Trusty would tree one and Thunder would be gone somewhere. Shooting a rifle to kill a coon, he could care less to come in there. Pulled him off trees with dogs when in thick coons up north but he was first one there. Otherwise if dogs get treed he's gone. Dunno how your female outta Trusty acts but he was pretty independent as well. Thunder pups I've seen so far have been either really independent or pack rats. Most of which have been pretty independent. 7 pups are 7 months old and 7 pups are 19 months old. Out of the first 7, 1 died crossing a road 3 miles from where turned loose by himself. I have 1 that's doing well and can be with dogs or by himself doesn't matter to him, the owner of the dam has one that's usually always by himself, 1 female wouldn't hunt and was a cull, 1 female is in Chattanooga (Brad Gann) and he says she is a dandy, 1 male in Alabama and that guy was loving him not heard much lately, and the last female was a pack rat I think. So pretty good outta his first litter old enough to be doing a lot. Good luck with what your looking for Lovis

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