Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
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Mark the dogs ability and actions it took to be a Good Solid Coonhound and Night Champion 30 years ago. Was almost one in the same. It still holds true most of the time today.

The ability to be a good solid coon dog and a top competition hound of today is growing further and further apart. Here is the thing difficult to explain. The true solid cooner and the TURE solid comp hound do have some things in common. It is the counterfeit dogs chasing those titles that give comp dogs a black eye. The ones most serious hunters would shoot. Mean, Mouthy, Miles without a coon just to find one coon, straight line hunters with out a brain. Tree dogs without a brain. But they can also win. So they become the dream some sucker pours money into. It use to be the dog salesman that said he just needs a few more coon. Lot of paid handlers have picked up on that story. He just needs a few more coon and we will be winners. Put the check in the mail.

I had a Friend that every year would come down here in the fall to hunt. He had different dogs every couple years. Every one of his dogs were top hounds. He had a consistent ability to have top hounds. as he got older and starts to rely on others going to the tree for him and others helping him choose his dogs. His dogs quality diminished. Some men know how to pick and hunt them. But relying on someone else in this sport. Just doesn't work most of the time.

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DogStirck. I have followed your ability around dogs for many, many years. I think you owned and hunted one of the best to ever be put in a comp hunt. You prove that a mans ability to take one to the top also plays as important role as having that nice hound recognized.
Sharing your knowledge and exactly what it is like out there in the top competition hunts. Could be very interesting and educational for many on here including myself.

Thanks

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 08-10-2020 at 03:39 PM

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Bruce thanks for the vote of confidence but as you well know anytime you come on here or any other blind forum you are subject to wayyyy more opionions,negative nasty conversation then a normal person can or cares to deal with much less the brain cells it kills defending yourself and heck I don't have very many of them to spare.lol John

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John , I have discovered that the only thing important is how I feel about a dog. It makes no difference what others say or feel about my dog, the dog MUST suit me. Jealous opinions and comments do not change my dog in any way, does not make it better or make it worse. A man does not have to impress anyone but himself, a dog does not have to impress anyone but it's owner. You have nothing to prove to anyone, you have done your share of winning and everyone knows that if you are hunting a dog, it is a COONDOG. Please share your opinions on coon dogs and competition hunting without hesitation or concern for the negative comments. If you help one person with your knowledge, it's worth the effort. Most of the negative comments will come from folks that have never owned a real coon dog or have a clue what it takes to win. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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This is not directed at anybody just my opinion. I respect a man that trains a winner and wins with it a lot more than a man that buys winners and wins with it. I have done both so I am not exempt from my own criticism.




John how many dogs do you enter in a major hunt all in yours and others names so you don’t draw together ?



Tar

Last edited by yadkintar on 08-10-2020 at 09:18 PM

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Just out of curiosity, why do you care? There are lots of sports where big money is needed to compete, not just these high dollar entry fee coon hunts. I do not care what the other man does with his money, either you can play their game or you can not play their game. Big money as you call it plays games to their liking just like little money guys play their games. Why should anyone CARE what the other man does or what games they play? We show horses in local shows, but the real big money folks show horses at the highest level, we ALL like to show our horses, but compete where we can afford to compete. I am not one bit jealous of the big time horse folks that show at Ashville and Louisville, just the opposite as some of these folks are friends of mine. They are competing with million dollar horses, as that's what it takes to win at the higher level. We all enjoy showing our horses though and can appreciate what each other does at either level. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
Just out of curiosity, why do you care? There are lots of sports where big money is needed to compete, not just these high dollar entry fee coon hunts. I do not care what the other man does with his money, either you can play their game or you can not play their game. Big money as you call it plays games to their liking just like little money guys play their games. Why should anyone CARE what the other man does or what games they play? We show horses in local shows, but the real big money folks show horses at the highest level, we ALL like to show our horses, but compete where we can afford to compete. I am not one bit jealous of the big time horse folks that show at Ashville and Louisville, just the opposite as some of these folks are friends of mine. They are competing with million dollar horses, as that's what it takes to win at the higher level. We all enjoy showing our horses though and can appreciate what each other does at either level. Dave

---

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Thanks for the honest answer. Lol. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Sorry, double post

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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You have to be all in to compete at the national

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Yadkintar,I really don't understand your question.If my name is on a dog I own him or are in partners with someone else and we own him/her.I don't put my name on a dog just to not draw him or her.The dogs hunting on the level that I hunt are all WORLD class,I really don't think that dodging one in a draw will help ya one or another,not to mention that would be a pain in the ass putting your name on a dog then sorting out the mess at tax time when you have to figure out who pays the taxes on which win.as far as my respect I feel like this level of hunting as a few aspects of it and its not as cut and dry as many would like to believe.I think theres very good puppy trainers that get them started (I am Not one of those for sure) and there are guys that do a lot better job at what I call finishing or polishing in other words taking one that wins a little but is missing a tweek here and there that would take him to the next level or would allow him to win at that level consistently.the later is what in my opionion I excel at .So which do I respect more neither I think both are invaluable in this process.The biggest thing I see in what we do is that theres not a ton of guys that have experienced a great one im not talking about a good dog because there are a lot of good dogs out there im talking about a great one.Let me give you a example I had a 2010 ford mustang Gt and man I thought it was stupid fast until I got the chance to ride in a corvette that john force had built for his 13 year old kid,needless to say when I got out john ask me if I had a fast car my answer my answer was yes compared to a stock camry.

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Good post, NOT everyone has the desire or time to train a puppy into a coon dog .I have NEVER wanted to or tried to train a puppy, but I do enjoy polishing on a started dog that I think has the tools to be an exceptional coon dog. I think there are enough folks that love starting puppies without me wasting my time doing something that I definitely DO NOT enjoy. I do not train any of my horses either, but know what I am looking for when I buy one. I enjoy winning on a horse we show, it takes just as much rider as it does horse to win in competition shows. It takes just as much handler as it does dog to win consistently in competition hunts. By the way I have never built a truck from scratch, but I have owned and driven a bunch of new trucks and enjoyed most of them. It's silly to say a man has to raise and train every dog he wins with to be respected. I respect a man with the talent or ability to recognize a dog that has the tools to win big and the ability to get that dog to operate at a high level. I can better serve myself with buying a dog that's started and one I actually like than wasting time on a bunch of pups without ever finding one that suits me and I can afford to buy what I like. Now, does that take any shine off my liking a dog that I did not train? Heck no! Dave

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Very few have the patience much less the ability to take a dog molding it with whatever natural talents the good lord gave it from the cradle to the grave. Much less the competitive mind of strategy to compete at all levels.
I've said many times that some are good at starting pups, some are good at taking that started pup and helping it become the best young dog it can be. Some are good at taking the nice young one and seeing it through to a finished dog. Very few can do all the above well. Knowing your limitations is not a bad thing. Aside from the financial aspect it takes someone with an eye for ability others may never find. To many make many mistakes in trying to make something appear out of thin air that just isn't there. Ever notice how some people always seem to be packing a nice one? This may even just your average Joe at the local level who may not have the pockets to spend 5 figures on a dog and may never attend a major event but he's the one you'd rather not draw.
The secret is not only recognizing talent and honing in on making it the best it can be at whatever it does be it a track dog, an ambush dog a tree dog ect, ect, ect, very few have it all rolled into one. One thing for sure is they better have heart and endurance for being hauled to a new zip code in any and all conditions on any given weekend ready to perform. There are a few of these at an elite level that are made by the man that handles them. Being that they start to finish the dogs they are hunting, I can think of several. These same guys may have a partner or a backer but don't think for an instant that they don't wear out more boots in a year than some do in 5. Yes, there are others that purchase whatever they have their name on and sometimes they have to purchase the man that's been behind the winner too, they are a combo package, man and dog.
Also, I hate to say it like this but no riff raff. I feel these guys that hunt the larger entry fee hunts it is more than some adrenaline rush of competing for much more on the line or for just dog and handler earnings, hence why some are non sanctioned. At some of these it's squirrel hunting during the day, the cards are always on the table , grilling steaks for supper and hunting all night, a gentlemen's hunt as they call it. Sounds much more like the good old days many of you still talk about.
Jen

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quote:

---

Originally posted by DOGSSTRICK
Yadkintar,I really don't understand your question.If my name is on a dog I own him or are in partners with someone else and we own him/her.I don't put my name on a dog just to not draw him or her.The dogs hunting on the level that I hunt are all WORLD class,I really don't think that dodging one in a draw will help ya one or another,not to mention that would be a pain in the ass putting your name on a dog then sorting out the mess at tax time when you have to figure out who pays the taxes on which win.as far as my respect I feel like this level of hunting as a few aspects of it and its not as cut and dry as many would like to believe.I think theres very good puppy trainers that get them started (I am Not one of those for sure) and there are guys that do a lot better job at what I call finishing or polishing in other words taking one that wins a little but is missing a tweek here and there that would take him to the next level or would allow him to win at that level consistently.the later is what in my opionion I excel at .So which do I respect more neither I think both are invaluable in this process.The biggest thing I see in what we do is that theres not a ton of guys that have experienced a great one im not talking about a good dog because there are a lot of good dogs out there im talking about a great one.Let me give you a example I had a 2010 ford mustang Gt and man I thought it was stupid fast until I got the chance to ride in a corvette that john force had built for his 13 year old kid,needless to say when I got out john ask me if I had a fast car my answer my answer was yes compared to a stock camry.

---

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Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

---

Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Very few have the patience much less the ability to take a dog molding it with whatever natural talents the good lord gave it from the cradle to the grave. Much less the competitive mind of strategy to compete at all levels.
I've said many times that some are good at starting pups, some are good at taking that started pup and helping it become the best young dog it can be. Some are good at taking the nice young one and seeing it through to a finished dog. Very few can do all the above well. Knowing your limitations is not a bad thing. Aside from the financial aspect it takes someone with an eye for ability others may never find. To many make many mistakes in trying to make something appear out of thin air that just isn't there. Ever notice how some people always seem to be packing a nice one? This may even just your average Joe at the local level who may not have the pockets to spend 5 figures on a dog and may never attend a major event but he's the one you'd rather not draw.
The secret is not only recognizing talent and honing in on making it the best it can be at whatever it does be it a track dog, an ambush dog a tree dog ect, ect, ect, very few have it all rolled into one. One thing for sure is they better have heart and endurance for being hauled to a new zip code in any and all conditions on any given weekend ready to perform. There are a few of these at an elite level that are made by the man that handles them. Being that they start to finish the dogs they are hunting, I can think of several. These same guys may have a partner or a backer but don't think for an instant that they don't wear out more boots in a year than some do in 5. Yes, there are others that purchase whatever they have their name on and sometimes they have to purchase the man that's been behind the winner too, they are a combo package, man and dog.
Also, I hate to say it like this but no riff raff. I feel these guys that hunt the larger entry fee hunts it is more than some adrenaline rush of competing for much more on the line or for just dog and handler earnings, hence why some are non sanctioned. At some of these it's squirrel hunting during the day, the cards are always on the table , grilling steaks for supper and hunting all night, a gentlemen's hunt as they call it. Sounds much more like the good old days many of you still talk about.
Jen

---

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I like the coast and anyone that knows me knows id rather eat a blue crab or oyster then a steak any day.I don't take very much of this stuff personal I guess I been doing it so long ive gotten callasses on the brain the minute you think you have the real deal or the RIGHT ONE something changes Tick disease, hunt smart, car hits em,someone shoots em off a tree etc etc so I just keep looking for something better and better all the time for you never know when your gonna need it.

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I love training pups my female is a grandaughter to bad habit. My 9 month old pup is double out of her sister I am a hard sell when buying sombody else’s dog they trained.



Tar

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quote:

---

Originally posted by DOGSSTRICK
I like the coast and anyone that knows me knows id rather eat a blue crab or oyster then a steak any day.I don't take very much of this stuff personal I guess I been doing it so long ive gotten callasses on the brain the minute you think you have the real deal or the RIGHT ONE something changes Tick disease, hunt smart, car hits em,someone shoots em off a tree etc etc so I just keep looking for something better and better all the time for you never know when your gonna need it.

---

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Jen Cummings, I enjoyed your post, it was factual and to the point. You got it right on all accounts, it definitely takes some shoe leather, patience, and an eye for talent to make any dog something special. My hats off to those who train a pup from start to finish, it's just not for me. Dogs and horses to excell have to have a knowledgeable trainer, the best prospect in the wrong hands never make anything special. I know some million dollar saddlebreds that would have been worth way less in a less trainers hands. Nothing wrong with wanting the best you can get regardless of WHO trained it, if it's the best the trainer done their job. I want to hunt the best coon dog I can get, and I do not want to do the training, they are way too many better trainers than me for me to waste my time training. I enjoy hunting the well trained already there coon dogs, not a may make it dog. Dave

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Last edited by Dave Richards on 08-11-2020 at 10:52 PM

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
Jen Cummings, I enjoyed your post, it was factual and to the point. You got it right on all accounts, it definitely takes some shoe leather, patience, and an eye for talent to make any dog something special. My hats off to those who train a pup from start to finish, it's just not for me. Dogs and horses to excell have to have a knowledgeable trainer, the best prospect in the wrong hands never make anything special. I know some million dollar saddlebreds that would have been worth way less in a less trainers hands. Nothing wrong with wanting the best you can get regardless of WHO trained it, if it's the best the trainer done their job. I want to hunt the best coon dog I can get, and I do not want to do the training, they are way too many better trainers than me for me to waste my time training. I enjoy hunting the well trained already there coon dogs, not a may make it dog. Dave

---

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Last edited by Redneck Mafia on 08-12-2020 at 04:27 AM

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Exactly, there is something for everyone in most sports, coon hunting is no different. You can spend as much or as little as you want depending on your wants or needs as I call "wants". I realize there are some folks that get a great deal of satisfaction from training the dogs they hunt and I will be the first to recognize their achievements. I also, recognize the man that can spot the talent in a young prospect and put the finishing touches on that dog. I even respect those like myself who buy fully trained dogs that are a pleasure to hunt from the start. Some like myself impose their own limitations on what they are willing to do in either training their own or shopping and buying a trained product. I am more than willing to pay someone else to get a dog to the level I require and for the most part I have always found one that suited me that could be bought. Some trainers just like the challenge of getting a dog to a fully trained level and then sell it to someone like me. THANK GOD for those trainers. Dave

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Heart.

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The winning dogs have to have heart, brains, and desire to please. Generally if you see these big winners the dogs have a good head on them. Many ride in the cabs of trucks, sleep in motel rooms and so on and have ZERO issues. Same goes in the woods, these dogs want to please. Handlers dont "generally" have to walk around with a club in one hand and an alpha in the other pleasure hunting. They know their job and do it night in and night out no matter what or where you turn them lose with/at. That gets to my next point with consistency. It is SUPER difficult to find some that's consistent. There's way too many factors that affect hunting conditions and we expect ALOT. Find one that can tree em night in and night out in any conditions and you will have a winner. Takes a lot of time, and patience to mold it in one.

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