Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Gold Beach, Oregon
Posts: 324

I don't know if this topic has been beat to death, I know that it has had a bit of controversy lately, but here it is anyhow. I must admit that it bothers me a bit to see Plotts getting blacker and blacker. A good brindle all the way up on the head and ears is important to me. I feel that breeding the brindle out of the Plott is like breeding the black out of the Black Lab. I know that color doesn't put game up a tree, but I think that it's important to keep in mind what makes a good looking Plott dog good looking. Here's how I like 'em to look:

http://www.plotthound.homestead.com/rocky.html

And for Heaven's sake, let's not forget old Idaho Clyde!


http://www.plotthound.homestead.com/ClydeYearbook.html

What do you think, Plott folks?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: vt
Posts: 1256

im not a plott guy but its real interesting to me that paul doyle--long time plott guy told me twenty years ago that plotts would be all black soon...i can remember twenty years ago looking for walkers with red head blanket back.. now thats the normal color. im not saying its right or wrong but just the difference in twenty years is interesting.. twenty years is just a blink in time . older u get the more u realize how short a time that is. pete

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Cowden, Il.
Posts: 773

I'm like you Stick....... I preffer a brindle dog also , I have one that is almost solid black w/ alittle bit of brindle, some nights I love her and some nights I hate her , I'm not sure if I will ever breed her, She would have to make one heck of a dog , and if I did it would be to a top brindle dog.

lol I'm getting really frustrated lately, I've had a good season w/ these young dogs, but here the last 3 nights I've gone I've had junk races.... and lost them each night . I need a tracking system, something awful......I usualy hunt by myself, but each night I had friends over . Its so aggravating, they've looked really good so far , then I go to show them and they look like 10 cents , anyway I guess I 'll just keep plugging away with them.......


A Plott Friend,

Denny Buchanan

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Armstrong,IL
Posts: 3348

just take awhile to get used to other dogs and sem to be oof and their hunt while with strange dogs, and others really get charged by hunting with strange dogs and look even better. Did your dogs trash before hunting with these dogs? Did your dogs start the trash or the other dogs?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Armstrong,IL
Posts: 3348

the first time I met Elwood Simmons and drew him on a cast he commented to my cousin Lou Esteppe who was also in the cast that he likes the black because they look so good and flashy on the bench.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 924

I checked out the website. Nice looking dogs. I have always owned black plotts but I like some brindle in them. Some of the nicest looking plotts I have seen is the brown dogs.

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PR' Lawyers Roamin Locktight Lucky (Plott)
PR' Lawyer's Atchafalaya Queen (Bluetick) RIP
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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 63

I won't own a black Plott. Two reasons. The brindle is what drew me to the Plotts. It's what caught my eye when I was a kid. Then to see them on those big lions up in the NW is what sealed the deal. I only hunt coon now with mine, but I'd go back to big game with them anyday. Second reason is that I see these black Cur dogs and there is way too much resemblence between them and a black Plott. As a general rule I've also found the black Plotts to be a bit more hyper and trashy. Just and observation and my personal feelings.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 924

quote:

---

Originally posted by blackwaterplott
I won't own a black Plott. Two reasons. The brindle is what drew me to the Plotts. It's what caught my eye when I was a kid. Then to see them on those big lions up in the NW is what sealed the deal. I only hunt coon now with mine, but I'd go back to big game with them anyday. Second reason is that I see these black Cur dogs and there is way too much resemblence between them and a black Plott. As a general rule I've also found the black Plotts to be a bit more hyper and trashy. Just and observation and my personal feelings.

---

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Home of the Roamin Kennels
PR' Lawyers Roamin Locktight Lucky (Plott)
PR' Lawyer's Atchafalaya Queen (Bluetick) RIP
PR' Lawyer's Roamin Cazadora "Cassie" (Walker) RIP

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Lafayette, Tn
Posts: 701

I have neverowned a plott but I think the brindle is what makes it unique. I have never been a solid color liking person and I think breeding the brindle out of a plott is like some guys I have talked to breeding the tan out of a black and tan. But thats just me. What do I know.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Cowden, Il.
Posts: 773

I know Lou , he is one super nice guy , As for my dogs, the two times i know for sure they didnt start it , but the other time my male split off from a buddys dogs and it was just so windy i couldnt find him .........not really sure if that one was junk cause he sounded like he hit a tree along this fence row , before he moved on south across an open chisle plowed field , opening just here and there .........but like i said it was so windy that i just couldnt get close to here him. I maybe headed up to hunt with Welby tomorrow night ....... not sure yet , lolol I'm kinda bummed about my dogs lol and still havent found my pete dog from last night .........


Denny

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Armstrong,IL
Posts: 3348

I have heard that Welby has that plott male straightened out and is really cranking now, let me know how you guys do,if ya hear some big bawl mouth dogs out there while your hunting it just may be me and Craig, keep a look out for a green ext cab chevy or a white chevy that would be us.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 134

What does color have to with it being a plott. Other than personal preference.

What you are talking about is color breeding. Not triat breeding. If you like the hound who cares what color it is.

If my Plotts were purple with pink brindle I personally could care less.

The buckskin plott was in the foundation of this breed and should have been left there.

But in the past there were breeders who select breed them to get the buckskin. So in the mind of the NPHA they voted to eleminate this color. (COLOR BREEDING AGAIN). NOW that we have DNA testing we could Test them to see if they came out of bridle parents and this would be proof that they are plotts.

Now What about the white are we going to quesation this next. If you can find them. Pics of some of the first Plott hounds had white chests; feet and legs.

If the hound came out of the best male and the best female and was black green orage or BUCKSKIN it would still be a Plott.

Color has nothing to do with how it hunts. We have had all sorts of colors in our litters and not one did better than other based on color.

Breeding and exposer is the key.

This is just one man's opion.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: bainbridge ny
Posts: 812

is what your saying if you can't breed to the standard change the standard brindle is what makes a plott unique and is the color set forth in the standard

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 134

Does color make the hound.???????

If they were pink with yellow pokadots would it matter?

If they hunted with the same determination; grit; and HEART would it matter what color it was?

If they come out of Plotts.............. THEY ARE PLOTTS.

Some of the clover bred walkers have no brown on them are they still walkers?

Some walkers are ticked up are they english dogs?

Some english dogs have no specks are they still english dogs.

Some blue dogs are so blue that they are black with little or no white on them are they still blue dogs?

Some b&t have a lot of brown on the way up the legs. are they still b&ts

When you start color breeding you start to loose the hunting!!!

Ask the b&t people ask some of the other hounds men.

Color is the last thing!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

if i remember right ,,back 30yrs ago werent most plotts sadle/blanket back with brindle trim colors or solid with some brindle on them...back in 1976 a man that i was trapping with had a black plott it had white chest and feet and didn't have hardly any brindle..top coon dog till he got around 3yrs old ,started getting cranky with the other male dogs and he had him cut and the dog went back to treeing coon and didn't fuss anymore..

remember some mags that had pictures of the old plotts and they had a lot of almost solid colors..

is that why they voted the buckskin out to stop the solid colors from showing up????

i think if a person can show dna proof of true plott blood then they should reg the pups regardless of color...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 404

Wildbill ~ There were several reasons why the buckskin Plotts were originally dropped from registration, none of which actually had anything to do with them being a solid color. One of the reasons was that many were not believed to be true buckskin plotts ( obtained from the infusion of redbone blood ). Another is that people would drive across the country to bred their buckskin to another buckskin regardless of ability! People do the same thing with Maltese plotts, Dark Plotts with little brindle, Show dogs ,etc.... But we have done nothing to stop these issues.
A lot of people who voted on this have stated they would not vote the same way today because of the availability of D.N.A. testing. But they felt it was the only option they had available at the time.
A lot of people thought they would disappear after not allowing them to be registered. After more than 50 years they still show up in litters and always will. Black is the dominant color of a plott and they will continue to get darker and darker, without the buckskin being crossed in or at least some lighter brindled dogs.
These are two comments I love to hear from people who are oppossed to registering buckskins.
#1 The issue of registering buckskin plotts is one based strictly on color breeding with no concern to ability! ~ I would like to know what it is when you eliminate a dog based only on his color with no regard to his ability? Is this not color breeding by the association?
#2 Why would you want to reintroduce a recessive color into the breed? ~ To reintroduce something doesn't it first have to be gone?
Another very strong arrguement is that in all the time we have not allowed the registration of buckskin plotts we have never once pulled the papers on the dog that produced them! Am I the only one that this makes no sense to?


OK here is my DISCLAIMER ~ I have recently started writing the N.P.H.A. Column for Coonhound Bloodlines and feel the need to say that these are my personal feelings and in no way represent the veiws of U.K.C. or the N.P.H.A.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 404

This is a photo of Dan Plott he was the 2nd plott registered with U.K.C. He has a lot of white, saddle back & very little if any brindle. He definately does not meet todays breed standard but most current Plotts can probably trace their ancestry back to this dog. Today 100 plott breeders would say I don't know what that is but it sure isn't a plott!

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Blackwater Kennels (Plotts & Labs)
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: cambridge,ohio
Posts: 4143

if i remember right ,,wayne jeffreys from barnsville ohio used to breed those dogs colored like dan plott but i think he had most of the white feet/chest bred out to maybe a white spot on the chest ..

the color breeding is the same thing (issue) that the walkers are going thru now too..linebreeding of the old house's chief dogs that some of the big game hunters have been doing for yearsssss for better dogs have started throwing some of the color of the ancestors of the first reg walkers,,if thru dna they could prove the off colored walkers were from pure bred parents then why not allow them to be reg..as what they are..

if people don't want their show dogs throwing the true colors of real coondogs ,they don't have to breed to them...

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: indiana
Posts: 560

never owned an all black plott, they where either saddle back w/alot of brindle or like I have now brindle on top of brindle

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Southeastern Oklahoma
Posts: 43

Check the December issue of Full Cry. Richard Mcduffie has touched some on this subject in his articale Breeding For Results.

I'm with Black Dog on this one. Color dosen't matter.

Jumpy

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Gold Beach, Oregon
Posts: 324

Hey Jumpy,
speaking of S.E. OK, do you have any idea how to get ahold of Bill Bailey? I understand his Plotts make 1st class bear dogs, as well as bobcat dogs. Do you know anything about them? Thanks.

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Registered: Nov 2003
Location: PLANT CITY, FL
Posts: 518

Lets settle this, Plotts by breed standard are supposed to have brindle on them that doesnt mean they have to be heavy brindle from nose to butt hole, but they need some on them. Next they need alittle white, however this isnt as much of a rule as brindle. Mike Wrights dogs have little if any white but are still exellent dogs. If you look at any quality line of plotts that make tree dogs, they also meet breed standards. These dogs like elwood simmons that are all black with a little white are show dogs, and in my opinion need some more brindle. How can a dog be a grch, or a worldgrch if its not a poster model for the breed? If you like the black dogs good for you, but they better have some brindle on them. I was at a hunt a while back and saw some plotts that I would have bet you a weeks pay were blk. labs, why come to a hunt with a plott that people have to question what breed he is , by the way the dog was in the treeing contest and would not tree. Finally there are to many fine tree dogs out there that also meet breed standards, its time to start breeding that kind of dog. If you want to breed plotts contact a quality breeder buy a couple dogs keep the kennel name on them breed them back to something in there own lines then after a few generations of quality dogs people will notice you and you can start putting your own kennel name on them. I 100% will not get a dog from a back yard inexperienced breeder. We should help these people before they ruin our breed.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Southeastern Oklahoma
Posts: 43

Stickbow, I don't know Bill Bailey.But I will do some checking around and try to find some info on him for ya. Kinda curious about his dogs also.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 134

The standards for color(brindle) in the NPHA are loose at best the only thing that they hold to is no Buckskins.

White is permisable not a standard. Gee wiz buddy read the book.

By the way the brindle only has to one streak 2" long by the standard. Did you know this?

Elwoods dogs meet the standard. Have you seen them or you just on that band wagon. I do not always agree or get along with that man but his hounds do meet the standards

If you do not like the way a hound or line looks do no breed to it or buy it. How can you tell a person what to do or not to do with a hound that pleases them?

Now that black Plott that did not tree. Did it not tree because it was black??????????

No; that would be bunk!

Breeding and exposer is the key to a good hound.

Color or lack there of has nothing to do with how a hound hunts.

Do not get me wrong I love a good brindle hound. But what I realy love is a Plott that will get out in the timber and do the job.

You have you opions and that is great; but why tell someone else that their hound is no good based on color or who's kennel it came from?

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: indiana
Posts: 560

what about the blue or maltese, I have seen them and buckskins do a bang up job.

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