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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4017

Tar to settle some of the confusion here.

I read these post about everyday but the circle you run in seems to keep me confused. I respect your age and experience in the coon hound hunt world. But I need a clarification. Can you share me your thought process on how a cast should be run and the winner determined. Please just don't start talking about those 3 hours hunts. Everything else is fair game and I would like your opinion.

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Old Post 05-28-2019 07:21 PM
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nitehunter2004
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12017

Get the popcorn ready.

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Old Post 05-28-2019 08:14 PM
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sleepy head
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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1895

Kinda scary

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Old Post 05-28-2019 08:36 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

Well Bruce I just drove 200 miles because Mrs tar only wanted one kind of paneling and that was the closest I could get it lol. I really am flexible on things. Most of the time I start a thread so the brass can see how people really feel about things. They might not be as forthcoming if they had to start their own thread. Really Bruce you should know because you were there also. Any hunt of any importance should have non hunting judges. Elimination style at the larger hunts I like that. I still think a dog should have one 1rst place to be a NTCH. And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon by itself to be a grand. All the rules above that will be voted on if they were to pass would make the one hour minie slams the hottest hunt and most popular and profitable hunt in ukc. I ainít doing nothing I do for me I am doing what I do for the young folks to enjoy coonhunting for generations to come itís been my everything itís the one thing that I always felt I was good at not everybody is cut out for professional sports but everybody if they work hard can be good at coonhunting.



Tar

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Old Post 05-28-2019 08:37 PM
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CHEWBACH
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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2408

OK Tar you can do better than that! just apply yourself.

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Blaze P.
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Registered: Jan 2019
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Posts: 71

Is no thought process, just rambles on and on and on.

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Old Post 05-28-2019 08:52 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

Ask me dirrect question about the hunts and I will give you my dirrect opinion without cutting up I will be serious.


Tar

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Old Post 05-28-2019 08:57 PM
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JAH
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Registered: Nov 2016
Location:
Posts: 85

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Most of the time I start a thread so the brass can see how people really feel about things. They might not be as forthcoming if they had to start their own thread. And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon by itself to be a grand.
Tar




I'll probably be sorry I asked.But since I have nothing better to do at the moment I'll ask.

You start a thread so the brass as you call them can see how people really feel about things? What people? You and a few others that have the same thought process you have? I could be wrong but I doubt you know how everyone feels or even how most feel.I get the impression you use "people" in the same way some use "they" What makes you think people might not be as forthcoming if they had to start their own thread? I don't know about others but if I have something to say I say it on my own.And don't mention it to anyone else to get them to post about it for me.So are you saying before a nite champion becomes a grand nite champion it should have a htx title first? I mean how else would you know it can tree on its own? I'm pretty sure most if not all can.Just don't understand your logic.You seem to beat around the bush instead of coming right out and saying it plain and simple when asked something or come up with some crazy idea.Its like you are running in circles.But anyway carry on.

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Old Post 05-28-2019 09:29 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

I think either a moh or it could be an htx hunt or just a trust worthy judge. A lot of NTCHs are hunting by their self down here most donít even hunt the whole time limit just tree a coon and quit but we really have low numbers down here people are doing the best they can. You have rule changes coming up in September yíall need to know they need your input to see how supportive you will be of the decisions that are made.



Tar

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Old Post 05-28-2019 09:41 PM
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Mike Mckinney
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Registered: Sep 2016
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And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon before it can be a Grand? Why not before itís a NTCH?

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Old Post 05-28-2019 09:49 PM
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Mike Mckinney
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Registered: Sep 2016
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I think either a moh or it could be an htx hunt or just a trust worthy judge. A lot of NTCHs are hunting by their self down here most donít even hunt the whole time limit just tree a coon and quit but we really have low numbers down here people are doing the best they can. You have rule changes coming up in September yíall need to know they need your input to see how supportive you will be of the decisions that are made.



Tar

just tree a coon and quit! Seems you have seen them tree a coon!

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Old Post 05-28-2019 09:57 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mckinney
And a NTCH should have to show it can tree a coon before it can be a Grand? Why not before itís a NTCH?



Least ways around here we have two cast of registered in that case the dog with the highest score that would count as his first they had competition these guys down here are going to make you earn that win. A lot of ntchs in low numbers areas are hunting alone.


Tar

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Old Post 05-28-2019 09:59 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Mckinney
just tree a coon and quit! Seems you have seen them tree a coon! [/QUOT



Supposed to hunt 2 hrs.


Tar

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Old Post 05-28-2019 10:00 PM
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Mike Mckinney
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Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 104

I get that but if there quitting club makes money still and they canít win.

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Old Post 05-28-2019 10:03 PM
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Mike Mckinney
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I get that but if there quitting club makes money still and they canít win.

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Old Post 05-28-2019 10:03 PM
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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1895

Tar, what ya think about this?


Location: Nebraska
Posts: 14

STRIKE POINTS
"In my opinion"

ALL strike points should be worth the same and only be used for accountability.

NO advantage should EVER be given to "the first dog to bark" and by using a tier level strike point system that's all you are really doing and all you will ever do.
I find it funny that we put rules/points in place to promote hunting a dog that opens the quickest, then put rules in place against it when they do. Babble, Argue, pitch, bitch, question and in many instances give undeserved advantage and for what?? Because we think barking first should be rewarded?? Really?? Try equal strike points on a buddy hunt some time. It puts a whole new perspective on things.
Notice I said "first dog to bark" I didn't say "first dog to honestly open on a coon track" because it is impossible to determine that period!! I understand that was the intent, but there is just NO WAY you can ever prove it. Strike points in comp hunts can play a HUGE factor in the outcome.
Determining the best "COONDOG" based on which dog opens it's head first?? Really?? That is ridiculous and does nothing but promote babbling. You can't get a faster strike than one right off the lead, right?!? LOL

How a dog uses it's mouth on the ground is nothing more than personal preference and should in NO WAY be used as a tool to measure the quality of a real COONDOG nor the outcome of a coon hunt. I learned years ago that the one making the most noise isn't always the one getting the most done. I've hunted with all styles from silent to wide open, but I've NEVER judged how good of a coondog they were by how fast they got their head open. The best hide dogs I've ever hunted with were my Dad & Granddad's crossbreds back in the late 60's and early 70's. Several were pretty tight, others not, strike meant nothing but the shed walls were always covered.

Which dog is the best COONDOG?? Simple, the dog that can tree the most COONS in a set amount of time. Not trees, not circles, and most certainly NOT the one that "barks" first. (And NO, my dogs aren't silent or even tight mouthed, if anything they are very quick to open.)

I am just of the opinion of...strike "smike"....the whole strike thing is WAAAY over rated and all to often misused because of the format. How fast a hound gets open is absolutely no measure of a coon dog to me......impress me....alone, in company, wet, dry, hot, cold, near or far.... play whatever hand your dealt and show me as many coon as you can in the area I'm hunting and do it in short order!!

Again, JMO

Greg

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Old Post 05-28-2019 10:08 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

Curtis the author and I are really good freinds and he read it to me before he posted it and I totally and completely agree with him. We were really talking about a hunt when that came up where what ever dog treed first was the only dog that got credit for a coon seen. The dog with the most coons seen at the end of the night was the winner. Only one dog gets credit per coon. No strike points no minus points.


Tar

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Old Post 05-28-2019 10:19 PM
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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 117

Am sure I will get pushed in front of a car for saying this but oh well. Am not taking up for tar because heís a big boy an can take up for himself. Strick points doesnít really mean squat nowadays. Dogs are being bred to open their mouth on a mouse fart. I understand some of you guys have dogs that can strick of the lead an end up a mile deep with a coon. I really want to believe you. But for the most part all strick points are these days is a way to get undeserved points. Circle points is just a way to cover up a slick treeing idiot. Treeing a coon should be the only way a nite hunt should be based on. All this other stuff is more handler related than dog. We wouldnít need have of these rules if the hunt was only based on treeing coon. Point system will work itself out. More real coon dogs will start showing up also.

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Old Post 05-28-2019 10:55 PM
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Dogwhisper
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If strike points are worthless as some say .... Then get rid of the scratch on the "continuesly "Silent" dog

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Old Post 05-28-2019 11:35 PM
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Pat Bizich
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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1129

Now you guys are getting my dander up.
A true hound .. read that again...TRUE HOUND. .. must first be able to smell ...trail... and... TREE SECONDARY TO RUNNING A TRACK they must be accurate in doing so or there would be no sense in awarding minus when they tree wrong for not finishing that track accurately.
If opening has no consequence why is there a rule dealing with dogs proving to be open trailers ? Why do HTX hunts fault a dog that does not open on trail? BECAUSE IT IS A HOUND TRAIT!!!!
Any barn yard mutt dog can tree game. That is the difference between a hound and not some mongrel farm dog that can tree game.
Saying how quick a dog strikes has no bearing on a dogs ability is a bogus cop out by guys hunting hot nosed dogs that want to level the field for their HOT NOSED DOGS!!!
You may as well be hunting curs.
So you got three dogs lollygagging around. One dog goes out and is hustling up a good track. The other three dogs get in on the track with one actually getting the first tree away from the one that found the track . AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD ALL GET EQUAL CREDIT FOR THAT TRACK??? I say BULL.
You guys wanting rule changes that penalize good hard hunting strike dogs are like the political garbage going on today. Everyone wants the country to come around to the way they want to live instead of conforming to the USA laws everyone else is already living by . Because it is good for them.
You guys want to change the rules to fit what you are hunting instead of hunting dogs that can win by the current rules. Because it is better for them .

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

I never in 40 yrs have seen a dog scratched for being silent. Seen some tight mouthed drifting type dogs that would put a coon up in a hurry tho. The rules we had when I started were really tuff on a dog you had them well trained before you went to a hunt or you were wasting your time. When $$$ first started the first cast and first money I won 3 of the dogs caught the farmers goat and My dog wasn't there and that made me the winner lol.



Tar

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Old Post 05-28-2019 11:50 PM
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Mike Mckinney
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 104

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Now you guys are getting my dander up.
A true hound .. read that again...TRUE HOUND. .. must first be able to smell ...trail... and... TREE SECONDARY TO RUNNING A TRACK they must be accurate in doing so or there would be no sense in awarding minus when they tree wrong for not finishing that track accurately.
If opening has no consequence why is there a rule dealing with dogs proving to be open trailers ? Why do HTX hunts fault a dog that does not open on trail? BECAUSE IT IS A HOUND TRAIT!!!!
Any barn yard mutt dog can tree game. That is the difference between a hound and not some mongrel farm dog that can tree game.
Saying how quick a dog strikes has no bearing on a dogs ability is a bogus cop out by guys hunting hot nosed dogs that want to level the field for their HOT NOSED DOGS!!!
You may as well be hunting curs.
So you got three dogs lollygagging around. One dog goes out and is hustling up a good track. The other three dogs get in on the track with one actually getting the first tree away from the one that found the track . AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD ALL GET EQUAL CREDIT FOR THAT TRACK??? I say BULL.
You guys wanting rule changes that penalize good hard hunting strike dogs are like the political garbage going on today. Everyone wants the country to come around to the way they want to live instead of conforming to the USA laws everyone else is already living by . Because it is good for them.
You guys want to change the rules to fit what you are hunting instead of hunting dogs that can win by the current rules. Because it is better for them .

thatís well said!!

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Old Post 05-29-2019 12:27 AM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 117

Mr Pat I too like a open mouth track dog. It is an should be the only measure of a true hound. But the dog your talking about is not the type being brought to these hunts. Some are against the silent mouth dogs in the hunts. An all should be against the babbler. Me , I just want the one treeing the coon getting the credit. The people that are involved in this sport will never be at peace because everyone wants the easy way out. Its not easy preparing a dog for these hunts. Its an every night thing if you want to be successful. People donít want to prepare. They want rule changes to accommodate their style dog.

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Old Post 05-29-2019 12:31 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8894

I donít have a problem with a dog getting his mouth open quick ! Itís what he does after that I may or may not like.



Tar

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Old Post 05-29-2019 12:35 AM
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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1895

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Now you guys are getting my dander up.
A true hound .. read that again...TRUE HOUND. .. must first be able to smell ...trail... and... TREE SECONDARY TO RUNNING A TRACK they must be accurate in doing so or there would be no sense in awarding minus when they tree wrong for not finishing that track accurately.
If opening has no consequence why is there a rule dealing with dogs proving to be open trailers ? Why do HTX hunts fault a dog that does not open on trail? BECAUSE IT IS A HOUND TRAIT!!!!
Any barn yard mutt dog can tree game. That is the difference between a hound and not some mongrel farm dog that can tree game.
Saying how quick a dog strikes has no bearing on a dogs ability is a bogus cop out by guys hunting hot nosed dogs that want to level the field for their HOT NOSED DOGS!!!
You may as well be hunting curs.
So you got three dogs lollygagging around. One dog goes out and is hustling up a good track. The other three dogs get in on the track with one actually getting the first tree away from the one that found the track . AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD ALL GET EQUAL CREDIT FOR THAT TRACK??? I say BULL.
You guys wanting rule changes that penalize good hard hunting strike dogs are like the political garbage going on today. Everyone wants the country to come around to the way they want to live instead of conforming to the USA laws everyone else is already living by . Because it is good for them.
You guys want to change the rules to fit what you are hunting instead of hunting dogs that can win by tdhe current rules. Because it is better for them .



Dang Pat that next to last paragraph made me fill like a libtard. Lol.

Last edited by sleepy head on 05-29-2019 at 12:42 AM

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