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SLR
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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 403

Xxx

Is there any facts that a thyroid problem will make a dog start missing coons

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Old Post 05-22-2020 10:18 PM
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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
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SLR mine did not start missing but just couldn't tell which way a track went and didn't want to hunt out right. I have spent 9 months trying to get him right. Put him on a large dose and it didn't help, raised the dose and he got good again and tested at 2. but after about a month he can't get the job done and his thyroid is low again. up the dose and he's good for about a month then same thing. Up to 2.5 MG per day and he's having trouble again. I have given up and will just hunt him like he is and live with it. He can still tree a coon but is not the same dog. Other people have a lot better success than I have.

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Old Post 05-22-2020 10:42 PM
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houndsound
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
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Has anyone tracked if there are certain bloodlines throwing more of these thyroid dogs?

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Old Post 05-23-2020 12:02 AM
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Roy Grant
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Registered: Dec 2013
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I have a dog that has eurhlicia (sp) when the temp goes up, he starts to miss coon. Gets real hot and tires quick.

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Old Post 05-23-2020 02:00 AM
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Sonny Phipps
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 925

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
SLR mine did not start missing but just couldn't tell which way a track went and didn't want to hunt out right. I have spent 9 months trying to get him right. Put him on a large dose and it didn't help, raised the dose and he got good again and tested at 2. but after about a month he can't get the job done and his thyroid is low again. up the dose and he's good for about a month then same thing. Up to 2.5 MG per day and he's having trouble again. I have given up and will just hunt him like he is and live with it. He can still tree a coon but is not the same dog. Other people have a lot better success than I have.


Tom, Iím not trying to start a issue or pat myself on the back but did I not tell you that this could happen? If you lay him up with that same dosage, his number will climb high. Itís directly translated to stress level on the body. I have no medical back up to that just real world experience.

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Old Post 05-24-2020 08:54 PM
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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
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quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
Tom, Iím not trying to start a issue or pat myself on the back but did I not tell you that this could happen? If you lay him up with that same dosage, his number will climb high. Itís directly translated to stress level on the body. I have no medical back up to that just real world experience.


Sonny yes you did and it may be that he will only be a once or twice a week dog from now on. The problem is he's the only thing I've got to hunt and I like to hunt a lot more than that. I am actively looking for another coon dog right now. But they're not easy to find. Preacher has a home here doing whatever he is capable of doing.

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Old Post 05-24-2020 09:58 PM
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RatDog
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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.

What is the level the dog should be ? Or all all dogs different? Waiting on results from Cornell on mine. Mine's been looking real shaky on finishing tracks lately and had some blood drawn and he has Lymes also. Hope the thyroid comes back negative.

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Old Post 05-25-2020 03:44 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Thyroid level won't mean anything until after he recovers from Lymes.

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Old Post 05-25-2020 05:09 PM
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RatDog
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 845

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Thyroid level won't mean anything until after he recovers from Lymes.


Explain why Richard. Hes on Doxy for 21 days then Amoxicillin for 21 days...If his thyroid comes back low should I wait till i'm done treating for the lymes ?

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Old Post 05-25-2020 07:50 PM
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Larry Hall
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 415

From what Iíve learned dealing with tick disease in a coon dog you have to make some significant changes.

First get him through the Doxy and let him come off for a week before you hunt him in warm weather. Mine runs real hot on the Doxy.

Hunt him about half of what you want. Every other night or a few nights and a couple off. Keep their weight under control. Switch to a fish based dog food for help with the heat and thyroid health. We are also trying an immune system supplement that appears To be working that was recommended to me by a fellow coon Hunter. First time in a year and a half Iím optimistic we are beating this thing long term. 5 weeks in and harder hunting than I should and no breakdown in performance.

There is a link between tick disease and thyroid issues in humans and dogs. Itís a terrible problem when you have to deal with it and extremely prevalent with the amount of ticks we have anymore.

Good luck with your hound.

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Old Post 05-25-2020 08:21 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Tick disease messes up their metabolism. Thyroid controls metabolism. Thyroid has a hard time trying to control metabolism while they are sick and afterwards so levels of T3 go up and down. Levels are off and unreliable anytime they are sick, run a fever or are pregnant. Get them regulated when they are healthy and continue that same dose when they are sick or stressed and don't try to regulate it then. Now that is just my opinion and I am not a vet.

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Old Post 05-25-2020 09:22 PM
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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 860

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Hall
From what Iíve learned dealing with tick disease in a coon dog you have to make some significant changes.

First get him through the Doxy and let him come off for a week before you hunt him in warm weather. Mine runs real hot on the Doxy.

Hunt him about half of what you want. Every other night or a few nights and a couple off. Keep their weight under control. Switch to a fish based dog food for help with the heat and thyroid health. We are also trying an immune system supplement that appears To be working that was recommended to me by a fellow coon Hunter. First time in a year and a half Iím optimistic we are beating this thing long term. 5 weeks in and harder hunting than I should and no breakdown in performance.

There is a link between tick disease and thyroid issues in humans and dogs. Itís a terrible problem when you have to deal with it and extremely prevalent with the amount of ticks we have anymore.

Good luck with your hound.



Larry I would be interested in what the immune system supplement is? Thanks

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Old Post 05-25-2020 09:43 PM
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RatDog
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Tick disease messes up their metabolism. Thyroid controls metabolism. Thyroid has a hard time trying to control metabolism while they are sick and afterwards so levels of T3 go up and down. Levels are off and unreliable anytime they are sick, run a fever or are pregnant. Get them regulated when they are healthy and continue that same dose when they are sick or stressed and don't try to regulate it then. Now that is just my opinion and I am not a vet.


So I may get a false positive on his thyroid test ??

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Old Post 05-26-2020 01:08 AM
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Richard Lambert
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Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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You don't get a positive or a negative. You get a number. You have to correlate that number with his symptoms. That number goes up and down with infection or stress. His body will try to keep that number at an even level but some dogs can and some can't depending on their thyroid and pituitary glands. You shouldn't try to regulate that number until the infection is gone. Dealing with thyroid issues is very complicated and not everything about them is clearly understood. Vets can't even agree as to what a normal range is. It is not a black and white issue. There is a lot of grey area.

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Old Post 05-26-2020 01:51 PM
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RatDog
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 845

.

Why the hells it have to be so complicated? Wasn't that hard in the 80's

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Old Post 05-26-2020 08:45 PM
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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4688

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by RatDog
Why the hells it have to be so complicated? Wasn't that hard in the 80's

Because back then it was survival of the fittest. I don't think we had the prevalence of these various rock diseases then but even if we did no one was testing for them.
Imho many now don't differentiate between active disease and a test that is positive for the antibodies indicating that a disease has been present. In other words if the dog has no symptoms let sleeping dogs lie, they have an immune system meant to fight off much of what many are showing pills down throats for everyday. There is a difference between a symptomatic/sick dog and an asymptomatic dog. Also if you treat the root problem that is causing your dog to be ill much of the time it's thyriod levels will come back into normal range. If you go treating a dog that doesn't truly have thyroid disease with synthetic thyroid hormones you run the risk of destroying it and hence you will have a dog that you are constantly chasing levels for it's lifetime.
True thyroid issues are common in old dogs and overweight dogs.
My list of imo on thyriod dogs....
#1 those looking for an excuse for lack of performance (this will include the many dogs put on meds who really didn't need them as they were in range of normal levels but owners think if they can get them at a higher level they may perform better)
#2 the rise in the use in shocking capable collars being worn consistently is actually destroying the the thyriod gland.
#3 increased prevalence of tick diseases in hounds that are exposed to them nearly nightly.
What to do....
Thain your dog to come without having to wear a shocking collar, hunters have become lazy when discipline came at the push of a button and it is quite possible that it is becoming detrimental to their overall health.
Quality care and feeding program to keep your dog at its optimal health is the single most important thing you can do. Clean water, frequent worming, diet and exercise along with keeping the hound on flea, tick and heartworm treatment.
Some dogs get sick just like people but as dog owners we need to do our part to give them the best chance to fight of anything they may contract.

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Old Post 05-26-2020 10:12 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10470

Crackheads have crack babies generations of them !! In mans stupid greed to gain a competition edge they created a monster. Then to get the all grand pedigree they multiplied that monster over and over and then when selling their puppy mill pups so not to take a loss on their investment they lied to their customers.



Call one of them and tell them the pup you got off them at 2 yrs old is a thyroid dog and watch them crawfish and blame it on you.



Tar

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Old Post 05-26-2020 10:47 PM
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Dave Richards
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Tar

Gotta give you credit man, you have been saying this for a long time now and it sure looks like you were right. Juicing dogs, how much harm has this caused? I wonder how many guilty parties would own up to their misdeeds? Dave

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Old Post 05-27-2020 02:08 AM
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Larry Hall
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Registered: Jan 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 415

Tom,

I want to test this out a bit more before I share. We are treating four Lymes dogs now and two of them are showing tremendous improvement and performance. These two have been on it just over a month. The other two we just started. We get similar performance on them and we will make it available across the board.

Truly unbelievable the positive changes weíve had on the first two hounds.

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Old Post 05-27-2020 02:26 AM
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Sonny Phipps
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 925

Giving a dog thyroid meds because itís T4 is low, is a big mistake many people make. A complete blood panel To check all other related hormone functions is the only way to know if itís a true ďthyroidĒ dog. Many dogs get a compromised immune system from something (tick illness) and the thyroid level drops off until itís system is recovered. Often time people jump on the pills and then the dog can come dependent on them. Test completely before you start the pills.

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Old Post 05-28-2020 06:25 PM
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RatDog
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Will do Sonny

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Old Post 05-28-2020 10:36 PM
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Sonny Phipps
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Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
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Some people donít agree, but in my small group of hunting buddies we have not had one test positive for Lyme that has been vaccinated for it. Most all that have not been have tested positive. All of is use a tick prevention program also but nothing seems to be 100% in this area

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Old Post 05-29-2020 02:15 AM
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Rip
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Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Gotta give you credit man, you have been saying this for a long time now and it sure looks like you were right. Juicing dogs, how much harm has this caused? I wonder how many guilty parties would own up to their misdeeds? Dave


So medically and genetically juicing the dog doesn't produce pups that are thyroid dogs.

Thyroid dogs are from one of three things

1. It's genetic, they have a genetic fault that causes them to have bad thyroids just like some humans have.

2. Tick disease: Tick disease can kill the thyroid in both dogs and humans.

3. Doping: Somebody made it a thyroid dog by doping it for performance with thyroid pills to the point it killed their natural thyroid. This will not make the offspring of this dog a thyroid dog but if you mess with a pregnant dogs thyroid you can cause a miscarrage, false pregnancy or stillbirth.

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Old Post 05-30-2020 01:38 AM
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yadkintar
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Re: Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
So medically and genetically juicing the dog doesn't produce pups that are thyroid dogs.

Thyroid dogs are from one of three things

1. It's genetic, they have a genetic fault that causes them to have bad thyroids just like some humans have.

2. Tick disease: Tick disease can kill the thyroid in both dogs and humans.

3. Doping: Somebody made it a thyroid dog by doping it for performance with thyroid pills to the point it killed their natural thyroid. This will not make the offspring of this dog a thyroid dog but if you mess with a pregnant dogs thyroid you can cause a miscarrage, false pregnancy or stillbirth.




I disagree.


Tar

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Richard Lambert
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I agree.....

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