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N Williams
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Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Yes zeb 3 was a top reproducer and the only reason I missed it was because I am way older than you and I had a broke back, ankle and bad knees and couldnít and wouldnít follow a babbling ,bronkey, blow deep dog. And spend money my family needed to prove what ?



For some us the past is all we got. But we keep setting behind that table putting on hunts. so you can prove what a dog man really is.


Tar



Not all the dogs he produced babbled. I was using him as an example. Iíve got a walker female right now. Best track dog Iíve ever had and been hunting 30 years. Not saying best just best out grubbing up tracks and having the meat at the end. Ground pounding fool. Was in 14 th cast we put her in before she ever drew minus. That was with the leaves off and sheís not wipeout breed. Iíve only heard of one dog on her papers.
People that want settle for less have nice dogs today and they did 50 years ago.

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yadkintar
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I know and I am not discrediting you but I owned the 2000 $$$ world champ go look at the play by play of how he operated I bought him after that and hunted him nearly every night after that. I trained grchgrntch yadkin tar deacon with him he was a double grandson of grntch yadkin tar rattler. Thatís when I noticed the track speed that I am talking about and the deadly accuracy. Bozz was also a grandson of rattler and a lipper female. Deacon at a young age more times than not would destroy bozz on any kind of coon. Where I messed up I tried the stud dog route instead of the money hunts I regret that now.


Tar

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Old Post 04-06-2020 03:30 AM
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Trueblood85
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Registered: Nov 2016
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I would rather hear a dog start a bad track and get it jumped and push it to the tree than tree three pop ups but thatís just me.



Tar



Absolutely!

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OLD TIMER
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Mr Tar

That because you know itís more fun carrying a good coonhound then a score card😉👍

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yadkintar
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Re: Mr Tar

quote:
Originally posted by OLD TIMER
That because you know itís more fun carrying a good coonhound then a score card😉👍



You donít make a good coonhound in the hunts. My favorite hunts now are with my son teaching him how to have an eye for natural talent. The type that are born with it you just hunt them.


And he likes snacks too lol.


Tar

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Old Post 04-06-2020 01:31 PM
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OLD TIMER
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1315

Brings back ó-

Something Roy Blakesley said a long time ago, ďyou can teach a dog to tree but itís a lot better if they do it naturallyď.

I just talked with a well known coyote hunter this weekend (on the phone about 600 miles apart😂 who used to coon hunt who said he quit because they bred the tracking ability out and the hunts are won by the handler more then the hound. Then he said something that put a smile on my face in these trying timesóďyou should be breeding to the handler, not the dog!Ē

He does have a Limber Lost bred Black and Tan for old times that he lets train his puppies how to get though the woods and trail rabbits.

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yadkintar
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Jacking a track back and forth 7 or 8 times 200 yards donít mean they run that coon a mile.


Tar

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Old Post 04-08-2020 12:29 PM
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Mike Knuckols
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Itís bred into them . Most dogs shouldnít be bred at all . They win a little and they are stud dogs . Now that the economy is in the crapper maybe people will make a breeding because they need a pup for themselves knowing what they donít keep they will have to give away . What Iíve seen is these wipeout 3some pups donít seem to ever miss , Wheeler pups open in the box let them out and bam thereís Rocky these Houses Jay pups are money and just my experience Drum pups are accurate. Iím about to have 3 generations down from drum x stylish clover pups . We will see what happens ? There are a bunch of balanced lines Swamp Clover etc . The problem is not many cull anymore due to the investment.

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Clovis A Nailor
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Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 245

Coonhounds are hard to figure out at how well one produces. If not put in the right hands who knows what they will be. I've kept a whole litter before. Some where crazy some where shy some would never make a coondog and there's that 1 I kept that made a real hound. Me and my hunting buddy bought 2 litter mate pups a year ago on my request that we needed pups bred like they where. His has made a nice hound and he don't hunt as much as me. Mine on the other hand is a real live retard that needs a .22 in his head. Now if you ask my hunting buddy opinion he would like another one off that cross if you ask me I would give you a complete different opinion.

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Old Post 04-10-2020 08:32 PM
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oldsouth123
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N Williams

Re read your reply.That's what we were talking about,TDB wouldn't have won or placed at all,because there was no re entry.He would have went home the first night.Just think,how many of us even know of a dog that win's five cast in a row with plus points, even in the small local hunts.

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Old Post 05-02-2020 04:20 AM
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oldsouth123
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Registered: Oct 2018
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quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
Iím not saying yíall were sissyís. Thousand dallied Bill won the senior super stakes and the world. Both times he did it he won early 3 nights got beat late. Then won double cast thur night then won both hunts. Hunt all week all night long and still be standing. Thatís a dog thatís still living and weíre talking about 3 hour hunts. Your problem tar is the best reproducer to ever lived died a few years ago. Your so hung up on the past you missed it. He produced 5 world champs. Love him or hate him donít think one will ever do that again.
That's what we were talking about, he wouldn't have won or placed at all,because there was no re entrys.It don't matter how tough he is,he's got to win every cast with plus points against some of the best .The night he hunts alone, he has to hunt the whole three hours without minusing out and come in with PLUS POINTS

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Charles Pullen
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Registered: May 2010
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Posts: 1740

Re: Tracking ability?

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
What makes dogs have superior tracking ability over others.

Are they more intelligent ?


Tar

Young man itís called ď Drive ď . Hounds that has lot of heart or drive will go hunting without a buddy and they will have the meat when parked . But if they donít have the drive or desire then they will put it in park when things get tough . Then a lot of hard hunting . Years ago people didnít have to decide which dog they was taking tonight. It was the only hound they had . So it got hunted . But I would say itís more desire / drive to finish the tracks .

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Old Post 05-02-2020 01:48 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10364

Re: Re: Tracking ability?

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Pullen
Young man itís called ď Drive ď . Hounds that has lot of heart or drive will go hunting without a buddy and they will have the meat when parked . But if they donít have the drive or desire then they will put it in park when things get tough . Then a lot of hard hunting . Years ago people didnít have to decide which dog they was taking tonight. It was the only hound they had . So it got hunted . But I would say itís more desire / drive to finish the tracks .



Havenít seen it in a long time but back in the day it was pretty common to see on a running track dogs that would start locating 50 yards before they got to the tree.


Tar

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Old Post 05-02-2020 01:58 PM
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Charles Pullen
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Re: Re: Re: Tracking ability?

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Havenít seen it in a long time but back in the day it was pretty common to see on a running track dogs that would start locating 50 yards before they got to the tree.


Tar

Donít you remember when dogs would cross a river and have it . Now itís a mud puddle and they loose the track . Use to be they would get in a middle of a cutover or clearcut and still here the meat . Now they get hung up on blow downs or laps . To me itís Desire & Drive both that makes one more special and lot of solo hunting.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tracking ability?

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Pullen
Donít you remember when dogs would cross a river and have it . Now itís a mud puddle and they loose the track . Use to be they would get in a middle of a cutover or clearcut and still here the meat . Now they get hung up on blow downs or laps . To me itís Desire & Drive both that makes one more special and lot of solo hunting.



I canít hunt mine on the river when itís low they go to the other side just to see whatís over there then itís a 50 mile drive to go get them when they get treed lol.


Tar

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Old Post 05-02-2020 02:09 PM
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N Williams
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quote:
Originally posted by oldsouth123
That's what we were talking about, he wouldn't have won or placed at all,because there was no re entrys.It don't matter how tough he is,he's got to win every cast with plus points against some of the best .The night he hunts alone, he has to hunt the whole three hours without minusing out and come in with PLUS POINTS


Bottom line you got to win several cast in a row to win any major hunt. He had to win 5-6 to win both those. I know itís been done but very few hounds go through stretches where they win 5-6 in a row against good competition. how many dogs have won 2 major hunts in thereís lifetime? Iím not against 3 hour hunts. Itís just a different time and if you had them now dogs would be scattered in different counties by the end of the hunt. Itís much easier to find a dog that can hunt alone and not draw minus than it is to find one that can tree coons and hold there points with dogs so yíall please donít get started on that. Most cast now in major events all the dogs are hunting alone anyway.

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Old Post 05-02-2020 07:19 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10364

Well we will see how that one coon a 2 hr cast stuff works with the new ukc rules.


And before anybody says well they treed more than that they just lost some of their points .......... OH REALLY !!!



Tar

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Old Post 05-02-2020 07:55 PM
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oldsouth123
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quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
Bottom line you got to win several cast in a row to win any major hunt. He had to win 5-6 to win both those. I know itís been done but very few hounds go through stretches where they win 5-6 in a row against good competition. how many dogs have won 2 major hunts in thereís lifetime? Iím not against 3 hour hunts. Itís just a different time and if you had them now dogs would be scattered in different counties by the end of the hunt. Itís much easier to find a dog that can hunt alone and not draw minus than it is to find one that can tree coons and hold there points with dogs so yíall please donít get started on that. Most cast now in major events all the dogs are hunting alone anyway.
As you said. It's much easier to find a dog that can hunt alone and not draw minus than it is to find one that can tree coons and hold their points with dogs.Yep,thats what we've been saying.Tar,I think they're finally getting your point. I know it's hard,but that's what they had to do,or go home.

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Old Post 05-03-2020 04:53 AM
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Bruce m. Conkey
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.

Mr. Pullen mentioned DRIVE. It starts there. Drive takes them on their mission of finding a coon. Drive can also get them into a lots of trouble if they don't have the tracking ability to take a colder track.

I am fortunate to have one now that has the drive/determination to find a coon. Day or night. I am fixing to start a couple pups in the early morning hours and I figured I needed a feeder bucket out. We are extremely dry down here and wanted to try and bunch a few coon up.

Couple days ago I went out in the afternoon to put a bucket out and decided to take a couple hounds, just to get them some exercise while I placed the bucket. Cut loose couple young ones and my older dog. He went through the timber and hit a DRY creek bed. He followed it till he found a mud spot in the creek. There he also found a coon. Now this is just after 3 in the afternoon with the temp. at 85*. Drive treed this coon.

https://youtu.be/ptKcma_UmTI

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Richard Lambert
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I know and I am not discrediting you but I owned the 2000 $$$ world champ go look at the play by play of how he operated......
Tar



Oh my goodness, that was 20 years ago. Have hounds changed any in the last 20 year's? How many years has it been since there was a Yadkin River line of dogs? How many years has it been since there was a Zeb 3 pup?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 05-03-2020 at 03:49 PM

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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, that was 20 years ago. Have hounds changed any in the last 20 year's? How many years has it been since there was a Yadkin River line of dogs? How many years has it been since there was a Zeb 3 pup?



Brouther a little trip down memorie lane it was bozz , bad habit , the raid and jagg dog. Raid and jagg made it to the final 4 of that world hunt without a plus point. Bozz got in the first night raid and jagg had so many circle slicks they had to start writing them on the back of the card bozz and habit had coons in their trees while all that was going on thatís why my female is a grandaughter of habit. They won because they finished their tracks with coons seen and was indifferent while doing it.


That kind of dog will win today also.

Tar

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Old Post 05-03-2020 04:32 PM
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Reuben
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, that was 20 years ago. Have hounds changed any in the last 20 year's? How many years has it been since there was a Yadkin River line of dogs? How many years has it been since there was a Zeb 3 pup?


Richard...I been wanting to say this for a looooong time...

A good or great hunting dog 20 years ago should be good or great today...

The difference should be that there should be a higher percentage of good to great pups in each litter today...

I realize hunting land is disappearing...and we now have the Garmin alpha etc...etc...there are pluses and minuses to consider...

I think we can all agree they ďshould be better todayĒ but are they, why or why not? This should be another thread...

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Old Post 05-03-2020 06:16 PM
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yadkintar
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Reuben there was no plan B back in the day they get by with more today because when coons ainít moving they get paid for it simple as that !!



Tar

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Old Post 05-03-2020 08:47 PM
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N Williams
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Reuben there was no plan B back in the day they get by with more today because when coons ainít moving they get paid for it simple as that !!



Tar



I remember I went to a Rqe about 20 years ago. Drew out with a bunch of well know dogs in our area. I remember we treed a coon right out of the truck. Then everything started slick treeing like crazy. Problem was everyoneís dog started backing. I remember the first tree was about 200 yards from first coon we treed and slick as they come. Everyone started voting to circle. I said youíve got to be kidding me. They circled about 5 trees that night that weíre slick and should have been minuses. Now days dought this would have happened. It was a ukc hunt and it wasnít ukc fault. Those trees would have been judged differently if dogs were alone. Last dog I ran she was alone and I mean wouldnít even be backed on 90% or better trees she made. Questionable trees always got minused. I most certainly believe dogs of today get judged more correctly. When there packing people seem to rule in favor of there dog.

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Old Post 05-03-2020 10:11 PM
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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
I remember I went to a Rqe about 20 years ago. Drew out with a bunch of well know dogs in our area. I remember we treed a coon right out of the truck. Then everything started slick treeing like crazy. Problem was everyoneís dog started backing. I remember the first tree was about 200 yards from first coon we treed and slick as they come. Everyone started voting to circle. I said youíve got to be kidding me. They circled about 5 trees that night that weíre slick and should have been minuses. Now days dought this would have happened. It was a ukc hunt and it wasnít ukc fault. Those trees would have been judged differently if dogs were alone. Last dog I ran she was alone and I mean wouldnít even be backed on 90% or better trees she made. Questionable trees always got minused. I most certainly believe dogs of today get judged more correctly. When there packing people seem to rule in favor of there dog.



I believe you till I go to the $$$ board and start reading the scores.



Tar

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