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collier41
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2005
Location: Patton
Posts: 89

Proposal 9

I own a straight still mouth plott female when she opens she's treed. I think this rule needs thrown out I seriously don't understand how it can be an advantage because the dog will most likely take third or forth strike my female is that way but makes up for it with 1st trees. I'll honestly say this rule has kind of kept me from hunting her in the hunts.

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Old Post 05-15-2019 03:48 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 16790

This rule came about because "hound dogs" open on track. They aren't supposed to be silent. Every Coonhound breed standard calls for an open mouth hound. Could you register your Plott if it had white spots on it's back? Long ago hounds opened on track and cur dogs were silent. So UKC said that you couldn't hunt a hound that was silent.

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Old Post 05-15-2019 02:09 PM
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BawlsDeep
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: Dixie
Posts: 11

Never see anyone debating the disqualification characteristics on dogs in a bench show but whole different story when they are in the woods. I donít feel that UKC should implement the ďCommon CoreĒ or ďNo Child left behindĒ system in our hunts. Please donít let me hear of a ďNo hound left behindĒ hunt. We used to cull dogs that didnít fit the part and breed for ones that did. Every dog is not owed a opportunity just because he is registered. Just like you and I arenít owed a thing. We have to work for it. Same goes with dogs. You have to work for it. If they canít reach the bar thatís set, Ukc is not responsible for lowering it, and no rules should be manipulated to where someone can just lift the dog up to the bar. Thereís way too much of this going on and people breed this stuff thinking itís gonna get better. Quality off dogs are down. Seems a man gets one to treeing a few turn loose coons heís got dog in a hunt following Saturday. More concerned in Putting dogs picture stretched out on a tree on Facebook for world to see than to be putting the woods time on dog and getting it right. And as for all the breeders off the year we have today...... People get these dogs that donít make and breed them because they are off ole So and So or there grandsire was a big name hound. Look, you arenít breeding to the their sire, grandsire, etc...... You are breeding to the dog standing in front of you. That being said, How can you expect that dog to throw anything any better than it is? I do believe in a throwback now and again but the rarity is far more unlikely to happen. 32yrs and counting in the sport and Iíve seen the quality off dogs nose dive. Just my opinion

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Old Post 05-15-2019 02:42 PM
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Rester
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Saucier MS
Posts: 33

Thank you sir for your comment. The truth if I have ever heard it

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RedCreek Hunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Perkinston, Mississippi
Posts: 152

Amen!

Maybe there can be a sanctioned event held to ratify all of the discrepancies everyone has each year. A so called Special Olympics type of Hunt for these dogs. Probably would be a record breaking turnout form all I read on here. 😂😂😂

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Nathan Phenix
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 277

Re: Proposal 9

quote:
Originally posted by collier41
I own a straight still mouth plott female when she opens she's treed. I think this rule needs thrown out I seriously don't understand how it can be an advantage because the dog will most likely take third or forth strike my female is that way but makes up for it with 1st trees. I'll honestly say this rule has kind of kept me from hunting her in the hunts.


Wow someone gets on here and talks about why he hasnt been in hunts. And we go on rant about sorry breed dogs and make jokes. Hmm wonder why hunt numbers are down. He could be like half others that find a way to cheat and just pitch his dog. At least Richard give a creditable answer why the rule was in place.

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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7078

His silent dog SHOULD keep him out of the hunts. Just as a dog that trees a possum every night or a dog that fights anything that covers should be kept out of the hunts. If a dog has a disqualifying the fault, why in the world would you take it to a nite hunt? If he wants to participate, then he should get a dog that can compete within the rules. There are plenty of them out there. My guess is that the nite hunts are not really all that important to him.

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Old Post 05-15-2019 04:41 PM
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lucas foster
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: decatur, Indiana
Posts: 205

Amen fellas. Called trail hounds for a reason

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Nathan Phenix
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 277

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
His silent dog SHOULD keep him out of the hunts. Just as a dog that trees a possum every night or a dog that fights anything that covers should be kept out of the hunts. If a dog has a disqualifying the fault, why in the world would you take it to a nite hunt? If he wants to participate, then he should get a dog that can compete within the rules. There are plenty of them out there. My guess is that the nite hunts are not really all that important to him.


I never said his dog shouldn't keep him out hunts. I said he could cheat and pitch his dog which would mean it's not eligible to hunt under current rules. Just saying people could handle things little different. And your right Jim night hunts prob isnt that important to him and way people go about explaining RULES the night hunts prop will never be important.

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Nathan Phenix
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 277

I dont own and never would own still mouth dog wont own chop mouth track dog. And I expect for the rules to be enforced with out exception. But addressing things a little differently is all I'm saying. You never know who is the person posting is or there knowledge of rules or heritage of hounds. Could be kid, could be someone just starting out in coonhunting. Had boy draw out with me Saturday green as gourd drove over hour to come hunt with dog that had no chance competing. Didnt know rules at all. Said he hunted alone and just wanted go with someone else. Wouldnt took much make sure he never came back.

Just treat people with respect and open mind of there knowledge or lack of is all I'm saying.

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Cory Highfill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 908

quote:
Originally posted by Nathan Phenix
I dont own and never would own still mouth dog wont own chop mouth track dog. And I expect for the rules to be enforced with out exception. But addressing things a little differently is all I'm saying. You never know who is the person posting is or there knowledge of rules or heritage of hounds. Could be kid, could be someone just starting out in coonhunting. Had boy draw out with me Saturday green as gourd drove over hour to come hunt with dog that had no chance competing. Didnt know rules at all. Said he hunted alone and just wanted go with someone else. Wouldnt took much make sure he never came back.

Just treat people with respect and open mind of there knowledge or lack of is all I'm saying.



Agreed. We can(or should) discuss and explain things without being hateful or wandering off on a tangent. And what's wrong with discussing a rule someone feels should be amended? Lord knows they get switched around all the time. He actually brings up a pretty valid point. I could care less about silent vs open trailing, its really whatever suits you. But how much or how soon a dog barks has absolutely no bearing on its ability to tree coons. I've never understood that one. It's like saying what radio station you listen to in your car determines how fast it'll go...

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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1895

Re: Proposal 9

quote:
Originally posted by collier41
I own a straight still mouth plott female when she opens she's treed. I think this rule needs thrown out I seriously don't understand how it can be an advantage because the dog will most likely take third or forth strike my female is that way but makes up for it with 1st trees. I'll honestly say this rule has kind of kept me from hunting her in the hunts.


Unless she is 100% silent I'd hunt her in the hunts, it was a rule the hound people put in place bc the curs would hand there fannys to em back in the day of grade hunts. To be honest i don't know if that's completely true but it's what I was always told.

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Old Post 05-15-2019 08:13 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 16790

Some people also get hung up on color. Does what color a hound is determine how well it can tree a coon?
It is very simple. Hounds are supposed to be open trailers. If a dog is not an open trailer, then it is not a hound no matter how many coons it trees. Being silent on track has always been a disqualifying fault. As I tried to explain earlier, you are actually asking to change the hound standard by asking to change the rule to allow silent dogs to be hunted.

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Old Post 05-15-2019 08:16 PM
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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1895

I wonder if conforming it breed standards has hurt the health of our hounds

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Old Post 05-15-2019 08:23 PM
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Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 455

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
His silent dog SHOULD keep him out of the hunts. Just as a dog that trees a possum every night or a dog that fights anything that covers should be kept out of the hunts. If a dog has a disqualifying the fault, why in the world would you take it to a nite hunt? If he wants to participate, then he should get a dog that can compete within the rules. There are plenty of them out there. My guess is that the nite hunts are not really all that important to him.


Jim I didn't know there was a rule that said a dog shouldn't cover another dog. I think that's just a personal preference. But I don't hunt the hunts, just like a good open hound who trees coon night after night.

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tstroud
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2019
Location: Tupelo, MS
Posts: 20

Re: Proposal 9

quote:
Originally posted by collier41
I own a straight still mouth plott female when she opens she's treed. I think this rule needs thrown out I seriously don't understand how it can be an advantage because the dog will most likely take third or forth strike my female is that way but makes up for it with 1st trees. I'll honestly say this rule has kind of kept me from hunting her in the hunts.


I know a lot of people really seem to be stressing that it can't be a hound if it doesn't open on track. Why does it really matter though? I know "that's what the rules say etc" but a tight/silent mouth dog can still tree plenty of coon, and they are basically giving away strike points to all the babbling hounds that strike off the leash and bark for 90 minutes. If anything a tight mouth dog winning would mean that he made up points on finding his own trees and looking at coon. The rules are supposed to make it an even playing field and keep it fair and competitive. Having a silent dog only seems like a handicap to me. If a person can win with one, more power to them.

I've had a real tight dog and would take it over the babbling nonsense I have seen around my parts.

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D Ray
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2019
Location:
Posts: 2

quote:
Originally posted by RedCreek Hunter
Amen!

Maybe there can be a sanctioned event held to ratify all of the discrepancies everyone has each year. A so called Special Olympics type of Hunt for these dogs. Probably would be a record breaking turnout form all I read on here. 😂😂😂



I thought they already had those hunts???? There called Bluetick sectionals

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Toad Hill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: missouri
Posts: 804

I say scratch the silent and scratch the babblers and let rest of us enjoy COONHUNTING

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D Ray
New UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2019
Location:
Posts: 2

Knew the Democrats would post on here eventually.... America today.... Canít hurt anybodyís feelings. How are they supposed to know any different if no one ever tells them anything else?

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tstroud
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2019
Location: Tupelo, MS
Posts: 20

quote:
Originally posted by D Ray
Knew the Democrats would post on here eventually.... America today.... Canít hurt anybodyís feelings. How are they supposed to know any different if no one ever tells them anything else?


???

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BawlsDeep
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: Dixie
Posts: 11

Look I intended no disrespect. Man says we are down on participation. Iím not after participation. I want a quality hunt with quality competition. At the end of the day UKC is a business. I Burn my fuel, my time, and spend my money to go to a hunt. Intern I feel I deserve the best possible product and experience I can get. Donít you know we are paying customers at the end of the day? When you go spend your hard earned money at a restaurant or resort, donít you want a quality meal, stay, etc....? You donít want a rude waiter or screaming kids running everywhere like babbling dogs whole time you are trying to enjoy what you paid for do you? Doesnít matter how much food they pile on your plate if its not worth eating right? These places have rules to prohibit these things as should our registry.Hello....

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JiM
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7078

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Jim I didn't know there was a rule that said a dog shouldn't cover another dog.


Where did I say, imply or even suggest that a dog shouldn't cover?

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Cory Highfill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 908

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Some people also get hung up on color. Does what color a hound is determine how well it can tree a coon?
It is very simple. Hounds are supposed to be open trailers. If a dog is not an open trailer, then it is not a hound no matter how many coons it trees. Being silent on track has always been a disqualifying fault. As I tried to explain earlier, you are actually asking to change the hound standard by asking to change the rule to allow silent dogs to be hunted.



Wasn't very long ago being a crossbred was a "disqualifying fault", or at least prevented participation as a registered hound. I/we/they can change our standards at the drop of a hat, always have.

Rule could be amended, without infringing on anyone's preference. Leave the strike points to reward the "hound" that runs around barking, but don't prevent the silent dog from participation. And if the silent dog that doesn't get struck is able to overcome and wins regularly, maybe people will start defining a hound as a dog that trees coon, not a dog that runs around barking fast and alot.

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tstroud
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2019
Location: Tupelo, MS
Posts: 20

quote:
Originally posted by Cory Highfill
Wasn't very long ago being a crossbred was a "disqualifying fault", or at least prevented participation as a registered hound. I/we/they can change our standards at the drop of a hat, always have.

Rule could be amended, without infringing on anyone's preference. Leave the strike points to reward the "hound" that runs around barking, but don't prevent the silent dog from participation. And if the silent dog that doesn't get struck is able to overcome and wins regularly, maybe people will start defining a hound as a dog that trees coon, not a dog that runs around barking fast and alot.



Couldn't agree more.

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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 2855

Cory Highfill

Best post on this subject, I hunt open mouth dogs and if a silent mouth dog can beat them, it just means the silent dog is a better dog. I do not mind hunting with a silent mouth dog or getting beat by one. If I do not win, it's because I do not have the best dog in my cast, I won't make excuses period. If you can't beat a silent dog when you are getting an advantage in strike points, you deserve to lose. Dave

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