Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

Ok thomasg I have another question for you.
If I take my males and females to get there thyroid numbers but no matter what the numbers are I’m Not Gonna Put Them on Any Meds, what number would convince you to breed or buy a pup? What numbers would keep you away??
0.9 to 1.9 or 1.9 to 2.9 or 2.9 to 3.9?? According to you all breeders (female owner) or pup buyers should be able to answer if I provide the numbers??

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Richard another thing I was thinking when I read a few things today. Medications affecting the dogs autoimmune system. I know the old timers did a lot of self medications to their hounds. The didn't have the money for anything else and most knew what worked. Today we have a lot of back yard vets with an abundance of things to give their dogs. Most are safe if given in a correct dosage and intervals. I think we do a lot of overmedicating our dogs trying to do the right thing. Perhaps hurting more in the long run.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Oh my goodness, now I am going to have to try and figure out what autoantibodies are. This is getting awfully complicated for my little brain.
Bruce, you are exactly right. If they have a problem, just give them something and see what happens.
Even just worming them nowadays has gotten awfully complicated. I don't remember dogs having nearly the problems with worms as they used to have.
And what about Ivomec? We give it for everything now. Whatever happened to burnt motor oil?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 04-07-2018 at 02:25 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Well He took your advice about his clubs hunts, you told him to cut back on the number of hunts and if the participation still didn’t pick up then he should consider shutting the club down. He Did! You may be one of only 3 people he takes advice from, Great Job.

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Last edited by wjoey on 04-07-2018 at 03:03 AM

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

i suspect that hereditary hypothyroidism is a genetic defect that can be eliminated or minimized by testing breeding stock. i would be more inclined to by a pup from stock that has been tested .same with breeding a female . why would i want to invest my time and money in a pup or litter that could have a genetic flaw that cant be seen but could have been tested for by the sire and dam owner? sure you can give them a pill or 2 a day and run up vet bills to make the dog preform to your expectations when they fall to pieces at 4 years old.lol with the all grand pedigrees big money winning dogs being sought after for breeding the gene pool is becoming smaller . without proper testing of breeding stock vets. are sure to get rich .the % of thyroid dogs could skyrocket and become the norm . lol just look at all the questions on the subject on the u.k.c. board for thyroids .lol testing has become more affordable . no reason not to test before mating pairs .if i was a breeder i would sell only pups that the parents tested negative at 4 years old with vet. documentation and set the market with them . a couple adds ran in the old tim ball style phone would ring non stop. lol

Last edited by thomasg on 04-07-2018 at 03:43 AM

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

How much does a vet charge for one of those autoimmune tests? Are you saying that we should wait until dogs are 4 yrs old before we breed them.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 04-07-2018 at 03:59 AM

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: AR
Posts: 291

I currently own my 1st thyroid dog. He is a 2 yr old and tested 0.4 the 1st time tested. 5 months later after being retested 3 times and 3 dose increases he tested 2.4. The dog did not operate anywhere close to what he was until a few weeks before testing at the 2.4 level. I started pushing the dog harder after he tested at 2.4. After 4 straight nights of hunting him fairly hard he was out of gas. It’s been a long road and a lot of pill pushing and for me personally I have no desire and of breeding to a known thyroid dog.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1739

I wonder how much damage to the thyroid gland is caused by the shock collars.....I mean,... think about it, the gland is right there. Dogs pulling on their leads while tied back from a tree. ....etc.

Seems to me the e-collar is suspect.
How many tree dogs are trained useing an e-collar ?
My guess is 90-95%

Yet no one is blaming the e-collar or even looking at it as a cause for all these "thyroid dogs" comeing on the scene in the last 5-7 yrs.
JMO.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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A lot of people are "looking at" e collars. They just don't know what to do about them. I myself would rather look at tick borne diseases. All of the dogs that I have seen with Thyroid issues also had a tick borne illness first, either Lymes or Erlichia. I would rather see a national database that tracked the incidence of thyroid problems that were preceded by a tick borne illness. We need to seperate the hereditary dogs from the dogs with tick borne illness and then we could start looking at other causes such as e collars or meds.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3370

I believe it's more heredity than pulling on the collar. 50 years ago very few people had dog pens. Dogs were mostly tied out. My grandfather always had a dog or two on a chain. They never got lazy or lethargic. They ran deer all day and all night.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

quote:

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Originally posted by Dogwhisper
I wonder how much damage to the thyroid gland is caused by the shock collars.....I mean,... think about it, the gland is right there. Dogs pulling on their leads while tied back from a tree. ....etc.

Seems to me the e-collar is suspect.
How many tree dogs are trained useing an e-collar ?
My guess is 90-95%

Yet no one is blaming the e-collar or even looking at it as a cause for all these "thyroid dogs" comeing on the scene in the last 5-7 yrs.
JMO.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
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I'm sure hereditary, tick borne bite , etc......attribute to "thyroid" issues.....just throwing the e-collar in the mix
haven't seen it mention as of yet.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: AR
Posts: 291

quote:

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Originally posted by Dogwhisper
I'm sure hereditary, tick borne bite , etc......attribute to "thyroid" issues.....just throwing the e-collar in the mix
haven't seen it mention as of yet.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Ok, I have done some reading/research. A lot of good that it has done me. It seems that veterinarians can't even agree on what the causes/triggers are. And even when a dog or person has a family history of hypothyroidism, less than 50% of these dogs actually develop hypothyroidism. And it has to be triggered by something that causes an autoimmune reaction such as toxins, infection or other causes. So, even a dog whose parents have thyroid issues still has to have something that causes him to have it. It doesn't just happen. Now that is what I got out of what I read. But different people can sure come to different conclusions. Apparantly the Vets across the country don't all think the same. But they do agree that can be caused by: toxins such as meds, vaccinations, wormers, chemicals in the environment etc; or by an infection such as tick borne desease; or by a virus; or by cancer of the thyroid gland.

Now I saw no mention of physical injury to the thyroid gland but I don't think they even consider or know what coonhounds go through. But injury to the thyroid gland can certainly cause it to be unable to work correctly and produce thyroid hormones. So e-collar could certainly be one culprit.

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: napoleon, ohio
Posts: 744

Has anyone drawn a dog food conclusion?

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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: IOWA
Posts: 958

I'm a believer that it has more to do with Eurlychia or other tick diseases instead of dog food , but who really knows until more and better research is done

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
A lot of people are "looking at" e collars. They just don't know what to do about them. I myself would rather look at tick borne diseases. All of the dogs that I have seen with Thyroid issues also had a tick borne illness first, either Lymes or Erlichia. I would rather see a national database that tracked the incidence of thyroid problems that were preceded by a tick borne illness. We need to seperate the hereditary dogs from the dogs with tick borne illness and then we could start looking at other causes such as e collars or meds.

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Last edited by thomasg on 04-16-2018 at 01:12 PM

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

maybe tracking collars and radio signals bouncing off satellites from outer space are the cause and we need to throw our garmins in the trash can . lol i still think most i thyroid problems are ]genetic and comes from a shrinking gene pool from breeding for all grand pedigrees and line breeding big money winners . my last litter was x-bred to get away from the same old stagnant gene pools . didnt get the hybrid freak of nature i was looking for but still got a nice hound . at 2 years of age still to young to see if i got any health benefits from my decision .

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
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Conclusion
Lack of ionizing radiation and the low energy level emitted from cell phones had initially led to this public perception that mobile phone use was safe. However, the dramatic increase in the use of cellular phones has generated great concerns about potential adverse effects.

Results obtained from this study, as the first human study on this topic, showed a significant alteration of TSH level in mobile phone users compared to those who had not used mobiles previously. Theses findings confirm early reports that showed alterations of TSH or thyroid hormones following exposure to EMF sources. Further large-scale research is required to clarify the extent of alteration caused by mobile phone use on the function of human glands.

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Registered: May 2005
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GIVE-EM ONE OF THOSE LITTLE BLUE PILLS THAT OLD GUYS USE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS, hee hee

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Oh my goodness Bruce, are you thinking now that making all of those videos of your dog treeing with your cell phone is causing thyroid problems? I am beginning to believe that there is really no good way to pin point what the root cause is. Thyroid issues are like Cancer. Everything causes it. We will just have to treat it.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
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When vets can't pin point where it comes from but just want to throw out some possible theories make you question how well a vet knows dogs. I personally don't think its hereditary in every dog that has it. Could be dog food, vaccines, flea and tick preventative, chemicals in fields, e-collars. There's endless things that could cause it. But heredity is pretty far down on my list, because dogs get it that don't have any relatives that have had it. How else would you explain that?

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
When vets can't pin point where it comes from but just want to throw out some possible theories make you question how well a vet knows dogs. I personally don't think its hereditary in every dog that has it. Could be dog food, vaccines, flea and tick preventative, chemicals in fields, e-collars. There's endless things that could cause it. But heredity is pretty far down on my list, because dogs get it that don't have any relatives that have had it. How else would you explain that?

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: West Kentucky
Posts: 165

I know it sounds funny to most, but I would like to know the common denominator here. Why so many dogs with “thyroid” issues. I lost my wife to cancer on Feb 13th, 2018. She had spent many many hours researching all that she could (you had better) on the subject. Though it is not the only thing, there is one you will find as a major contributor to our health problems, our diets, what we eat every day (1 coke has about 11 teaspoons of sugar and sugar feeds cancer, so in and so forth). Don’t laugh, I have lived it. What is the quality of our dog food? Have you ever read the ingredients? Have you ever researched what all of that junk is? Beat me up if you want, but it is just a thought and only my 2 cents worth.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Feed....Anything and everything is open for consideration. I am leaning towards a combination of causes. Maybe one by itself won't cause a problem but several together can have an additve effect.
Think about iodine also. It has been discussed in relation to heat cycles. Too little and a female won't come in heat. So adding iodine was recommended by some. But I read one study that said too much iodine will cause the thyroid gland to shut down. And every brand of feed has a different level of iodine.

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