Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

I really find it hard to believe this is done on purpose. Back 40 or more years ago we used precautions to keep dogs from wanting to babble. Like not hunting a pup that couldn't keep up. Or constantly driving down creek banks and turning on hot coon after hot coon. I have that seen that teach many to come out of the box barking and never shutting up.

But do people in this day and time. Really set out to TEACH a dog to babble.

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

Bruce, I think the people that know the answer with 100% certainty aren't going to answer your question.

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Location: Central,illinois
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It's hard to imagine isn't it,someone teaching a dog to do something that most of us have spent a lifetime trying to make sure a dog doesn't do,but then again.....I'm not looking for points

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: milan,mi
Posts: 1378

I don't think it is taught. It's a uncorrected habit that the owner has allowed. Jmho

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

You open your door a theif will come in. The rules allow it so they capitalize on it. The same guy that says his dog is an honest strike dog off the snap is the same guy that will try and scratch a tighter mouth dog for being silent just because his dog cannot compete as well with a dog he can’t hear till it’s to late.



Tar

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

Tar that don't come close to answering the question. Capitalizing on a dogs fault is done all the time in hunts. Circle points for a slick treeing dog is capitalizing on a dogs mistake.

Nobody trains their dogs to slick tree. Their training methods may favor a dog becoming a slick dog by not correcting the problem.


Question was. Do people actually train hounds INTENTIONALLY to babble.

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Location: Indiana
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Bruce imo I don't believe it's taught, like someone else said it's an uncorrected habit, some people love to look and act like a professional trainer take credit for teaching the dog this.

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I have a 8 month old pup that has opened his mouth off the leash since I started hunting him. I think he was born with it. Some start out barking behind other dogs . I can turn him loose with dogs an he will bark behind or out in front. They are not trained to do it . It’s owner allows it to go on. I don’t like it . But he hasn’t started treeing good enough to do a lot of correcting. Like tar said, the rules support it. I might leave him alone an join the rest of the babbling idiots.

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Registered: Jun 2004
Location: 3515-38st-moline ill.
Posts: 548

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Tar that don't come close to answering the question. Capitalizing on a dogs fault is done all the time in hunts. Circle points for a slick treeing dog is capitalizing on a dogs mistake.

Nobody trains their dogs to slick tree. Their training methods may favor a dog becoming a slick dog by not correcting the problem.


Question was. Do people actually train hounds INTENTIONALLY to babble.

---

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2620

This is just me personally, but even if they moved 1st strike up to 200, I'd still wouldn't own a rattled headed babbling dog for the hunts. Winning is only so important to me I reckon

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quote:

---

Originally posted by critter
The answer is YES,absolutely.I had a pkc hunter tell me he wanted his dog to bark from the time his foot hit the ground until he loaded him up.ABSOLUTELY!

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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1108

It may be possible to train one to babble but to get one to bark constantly for 20 minutes before it hits a real track would be really hard unless the dog is naturally a barker. The dog I have now just won't bark behind another dog. I didn't train this it's just the way it is. Would be hard to make him a babbler. If he was a babbler I would either break him or cull him. Can't stand one.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by critter
The answer is YES,absolutely.I had a pkc hunter tell me he wanted his dog to bark from the time his foot hit the ground until he loaded him up.ABSOLUTELY!

---

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Oh the naivety of some that come on this board!

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

I know for a fact it has been done several times. Just how common is it? I don't have a clue but I do know people that intentionally use the tools they have available to make the dog fit the rules.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2620

I don't get out much but I've never seen anyone take a dog from a pup that didn't already take off barking and make it a babbler. I have seen several,several pups that barked at dogs every breath taking off from the first they was took at night and not ever get corrected and then the owner claim he taught him to be a first/automatic strike dog. If there's a secret to getting one to do it, I prefer no one ever tell me it lol.

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Registered: Aug 2008
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In my opinion the short answer is NO they do not. But that doesn't mean they are doing anything to correct it either.

You see, way more is being done in the breeding pen to develop the trait to babble, than is being done in the training pen. Breed for a more level headed hound and a more level headed hound you will get. Breed for a silent trailing hound and a more silent trailing hound you will get.

Since the rules have now changed to give the silent dog a better advantage, the more you will see dogs being bred to obtain the silent trait. You see it all starts in the breeding pen and then the trainers work to hone the skills of that trait to work to their advantage to win a hunt.


There is no reason now what so ever to NOT allow any canine to participate in a coon treeing contest like is being offered in 2020. Desired traits are now out the window, it's now leaning simply toward the dog that trees the most coon, regardless of how they get it done.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1074

It can be and absolutely is taught and encouraged. Much in the same vein as the dog that runs junk and falls off on a coon somewhere. Seen it, been around it, been beat by it, and until and unless they all go in for the same strike it will continue to be a bad habit that is encouraged and in many cases bred for.
I hate them.

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Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 1058

Wit dogs now allowed to be silent there wil be more gripin bout babblers cause old tite mouth cant stay with them on any track hot or cold.
been huntin over 40 years. judged guided made nite champ and grand nites. only run into a few real true mouthy dogs. half you ole boys don't know diff cause youre dog aint got a nose or is tite mouth most them are in youre imagination cause all thes babblers u guys talk bout just don't exist. if you think you draw them every week end maybe you need to look at wants on end of youre own lead
the ones on here gripin most probly hunt still mouth hot nose curs hounds kind jmo

something else you boys say even strike or no strike points. so you want dogs runnin round treein all nite wit no track ability and just scorin trees . that is nuts. you guys really git pleasure from that. mite as well hunt curs. hope my huntin days never see the day the rules change to not give a dog strike points

any dog can be trained to do anything if the desire is ther but who in right mind would do it then injoy the result and half to hunt wit it

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Last edited by benderb4 on 12-31-2019 at 11:40 PM

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

I don't understand why some hunters hate babblers or open mouth trailers so much. I can see that some would not prefer a dog that opens a lot on track but to say that you absolutely can't stand or hate a babbler, I don't understand.

Almost everyone wants/likes a dog that gets real excited when they tree and barks every breath. They even have contests to see whose dog can bark the most. So what is the matter with a dog that gets real excited and barks a lot when they trail? Maybe we should have trailing contests to see whose dog can bark the most on track.

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Registered: Dec 2017
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You ole boys that’s trying to get people to believe that the babbling junk you hunt has a nose better than a honest, tighter mouth dog is BS . A lot of the babbling crap is a hot nosed pop a hot coon up dog that can’t keep his mouth shut. A real cold nosed track dog with brains uses its mouth right. Been around the block with these dogs. You fellas that hunt that babbling crap will make sly remarks after the hunt on how ole babbling joe won the cast. If they can smell so good why they go a mile in a straight line before they get treed. Especially when they are cut loose in places where a coon is in every other tree.

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Registered: Dec 2017
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I don't understand why some hunters hate babblers or open mouth trailers so much. I can see that some would not prefer a dog that opens a lot on track but to say that you absolutely can't stand or hate a babbler, I don't understand.

Almost everyone wants/likes a dog that gets real excited when they tree and barks every breath. They even have contests to see whose dog can bark the most. So what is the matter with a dog that gets real excited and barks a lot when they trail? Maybe we should have trailing contests to see whose dog can bark the most on track.

---

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Registered: Nov 2016
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 65

quote:

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Originally posted by Cory Highfill
.............. and until and unless they all go in for the same strike it will continue to be a bad habit that is encouraged and in many cases bred for.

I hate them.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Why didn't you explain to him that the dog that finds the tree first is rewarded 125 points and the dog that finds the track first gets 100 points. When a dog finds a track, the dog is supposed to track bark so that everyone knows it and his handler can strike him. When a dog finds the tree, it is supposed to tree bark so that his handler can tree him.

Now if a handler thinks the dog tree barks and trees him but he isn't treed, then the dog gets his tree points minused. If a dog track barks and his handler strikes him but the dog isn't trailing, then the dog gets his strike points minused.

It isn't that hard to understand. A hound is supposed to first find a track and then tree it.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Do handlers train a dog to tree too quick or slick tree?
Do handlers train a dog to open on a track too quick or babble?

Which is worse, a slick tree'er or a babbler?

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