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Do you have experience with black/tan colored redbones?
You do not have permission to vote on this poll.
Yes, have had them born here 48 27.91%
No, never had them - never heard of them 28 16.28%
Heard of it happening 82 47.67%
No way, a redbone can not be black/tan colored 14 8.14%
Total: 172 votes 100%
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Janet Ford
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: In the boonies of Michigan
Posts: 673

Black and Tan Colored Redbones

How many of you have seen them?
How common do you think they are?
Do they seem to creep up in certain lines or does anyone here have genetic knowledge to share how it happens? As in both parents need to be carrier, etc.
Throw back to... ?

And, yes, I'm asking because I now got my first! and second... and third... UGH! Yes, I'm disappointed and not sure how to handle this litter but I'm not going to hide them, either. I'd like to learn more.

And they are from (DNA'd) bloodlines that can't be beat and yes, I'm 1,000,000% certain there was nobody peeking over my fence that shouldn't have been. LOL We kennel everyone here and we walk them on leads for supervised breedings.

I understand it happens and that many/most breeders knock them in the heads when they are born. I'm willing to take the hit and do right by these gorgeous babies. It's by my choice that they found their way into the world so they are my responsibility to care for.

They are less than 12 hours old and the eldest has this odd red tint. A red and tan? LOL The others are still wet. Will be curious to see what the colors look like in a few days.

I'm willing to share pedigrees, photos and even videos for the sake of an educational discussion but will not if the conversation becomes flames. Educate me and I'll add to the melting pot of knowledge/experience.

As a writer, I'd like to really research this and write up an article on it so VERY appreciative for informed replies for that reason as well.

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Justin_Cox
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: N E Tennessee Scott co.
Posts: 237

I would like to see one, if anybody has a pictures. I have never heard of one.

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ST_CRK_KENNELS
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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: SOUTHEAST MO
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Don't know about any pure bred dogs, but when I started out a man that lived down the road from me gave me two pups. They were half Red Bone and Half Walker. There were seven pups. 1 colored identical to a B&T, 3 colored like Red Bones and 3 Colored like Walkers.

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MIKE-B
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2007
Location: Greeneville, Tn
Posts: 495

Years back it wasnt unheard of but havent in quite a fews years ifn i recall rite there was a time that redbones would throw a B&T Every 5 to 6 generations an that came from 2 old very reputable redbone breeders

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Janet Ford
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: In the boonies of Michigan
Posts: 673

quote:
Originally posted by TNridgerunner
I would like to see one, if anybody has a pictures. I have never heard of one.


I'll share photos today or tomorrow so you all can see. I'll also upload a video to youtube and share the link.

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Janet Ford
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: In the boonies of Michigan
Posts: 673

quote:
Originally posted by MIKE-B
Years back it wasnt unheard of but havent in quite a fews years ifn i recall rite there was a time that redbones would throw a B&T Every 5 to 6 generations an that came from 2 old very reputable redbone breeders


Would you mind sharing the line that they were from? Mine go back to some very favored lines as well. Both parents go back to the Bare Necessities dog. He is the grandsire of the sire and Dutch is the sire of my dam. Excellent lines that I put forth extra effort to get. Improving feet and head and though mine have always been dark, they are even darker now.... yeah, minus the b/t thing. LOL that REALLY darkened up things! hahaha

I was sooo excited about this litter and wanted to keep back a girl. Now I don't dare.

And no, I have no intentions of getting rid of either parent. I believe in the quality of these dogs. I just won't breed them together next time as the genes must be locking up to cause this. I'll breed her to my Famous Amos boy instead.

I have always gotten pups from this stud that made me say "Is it...???" but then once fully dried they were just incredibly dark. No questions this time. Although the one still looks really red hued. Doubt they will fool me and turn red.

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Justin_Cox
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: N E Tennessee Scott co.
Posts: 237

thanks, you can send it to my email if you dont care.

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Tim MACHA
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Troy Iowa
Posts: 2156

I would calm down

I have seen this before in new borns. Within a couple of weeks, they will change and you will end up with some dark red puppies. Chill out and you will see.

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topdog
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1120

Good advice

Listen to Tim, lots of pups look very black when born and shortly thereafter but they lighten up and turn red in time...usually nothing to worry about.

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s/s
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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: BRIGHTON, TENNESSEE 30 miles north of Memphis
Posts: 2169

Re: I would calm down

quote:
Originally posted by Tim MACHA
I have seen this before in new borns. Within a couple of weeks, they will change and you will end up with some dark red puppies. Chill out and you will see.






LMBO !!!!!! " CHILL OUT !! THEY WILL LIGHTEN UP WHEN THEY DRY!!" LOL !! LOL !!
I remember these words so clearly !!


I am sorry Tim, I don't mean any harm in laughing about part of your comment. Hehe !! What you said reminded me so much of what my husband was telling me as he laid in bed while I ranted about B&T puppies being born from one of our Redbones...

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Chiggers
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Registered: May 2004
Location: Kentucky Wildcat Country
Posts: 4600

I havent been around any Redbones for years but it used to be fairly common, Chocolate ones also.

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Janet Ford
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: In the boonies of Michigan
Posts: 673

Re: I would calm down

quote:
Originally posted by Tim MACHA
Chill out and you will see.


Can you repeat that part?

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Justin_Cox
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: N E Tennessee Scott co.
Posts: 237

I think it would be cool to have a female redbone that is a black and tan in colors, I wonder what color of pups would it throw. so s/s did those pups stay black and tan or did they become a dark red. cool picks yall, hey Janet Ford have you desided how much you would want for one if they stay that color.

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s/s
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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: BRIGHTON, TENNESSEE 30 miles north of Memphis
Posts: 2169

Both parents go back to the Bare Necessities dog. He is the grandsire of the sire and Dutch is the sire of my dam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~


Hey Janet, Sabrina here. How have ya been doin'? Pretty good here.

You gotta go deeper than Baloo..He may be the most recent in common in both of your pedigrees, but, I think you will be finding out that it goes way, way deeper than him....Do you have a 7 generation ped on your hounds? Baloo is also the grand sire of my Bo, which is the sire of the pups in the picture above...BUT, Gracie has nothing in common with Bo's 3 generation pedigree. Nothing in common at all until you get into the 5th, 6th and 7th generation.

Last edited by s/s on 08-11-2009 at 02:38 AM

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Janet Ford
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: In the boonies of Michigan
Posts: 673

Thanks for posting your photo, s/s. Not many people will.
May I ask what lines they are?
I'll post the pedigrees of these pups soon. Right now I'm just exhausted from my all night hawk watch and delivery with this litter. Hubby and I take shifts in our whelping room. We do not leave them AT ALL for the first 1-2 wks. He gets the night shift so I get to go night-night soon. I'll post the pedigree and maybe a link to the video I took if I can get it uploaded tomorrow sometime.

What became of those b/t pups, s/s? How did you manage the advertising of them? I know it happens but how do you convince puppy buyers that they may be 'freaks' but they aren't mutts? These are some kick BUTT lines in these pups.

Chocolate ones... hmmm.... do you think maybe the girl I have with the wild red 'glaze' over her may be chocolate? It's so hard to see in the photo but look by her ear. All of her black has a red hue to it when the light hits it. It is not red tipped and the base hairs are not red, either. It's like a metallic red affect.

Would love to see more pics of black and tan colored redbones. Anyone have some to share?

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s/s
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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: BRIGHTON, TENNESSEE 30 miles north of Memphis
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YES !!

All three of mine stayed VERY, VERY B&T !! I kept them until they were 8 weeks old. I wish I had taken more pics of this litter, but I didn't. What a shame, huh? Anyway, I can put my hands on one of these pups. The other 2 have been passed around and I have lost track of them. I can't tell ya how many times I have said I was going to get some pics of her and I keep forgetting.
SHE IS BEAUTIFUL !! She does hunt also. She made a very nice pleasure hound. Her owner is very happy with her.

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s/s
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Location: BRIGHTON, TENNESSEE 30 miles north of Memphis
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ADVERTISING THEM?

LOL...I didn't...Didn't have too !! I had an ad for Redbone pups and when folks come to look, they fell in love with the B&T's. They all said they wanted the pups for pleasure hunting and no need for papers...

The one I do still know of her where abouts is one of 2 pleasure hunting hounds that these folks own. Both are females. My B&T pup and thier other is a Redbone.



I think your best chance to discuss this with someone is to get into a private conversation with some of the older Redbone breeders...I will tell ya this, they can tell ya exactly where this "may" have cropped up from....But, the truth is, that you are gonna have a hard, hard time getting anyone to talk truth on what was what in 6, 7, 8, 9 and even 10 generations back in some cases. Which is really a shame...Because these same hounds that this is coming from is in most, not all, but most, of our bloodlines at least once ! Several in most cases....

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ringtail
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2702

no redbone expert.......

quote:
Originally posted by Janet Ford
....they are from (DNA'd) bloodlines that can't be beat and yes, I'm 1,000,000% certain there was nobody peeking over my fence that shouldn't have been. LOL We kennel everyone here and we walk them on leads for supervised breedings....
but I don't think anybody was peeking over the fence, they was SNEAKING over the fence..... LOL J/K

I realize ur dogs are DNA'd, but this could be coming from 3, 4, 5, or more generations ago...... I'd say some where down the line there was a B&T outcross and the off colored pups r throw backs to that crossing.......

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s/s
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Location: BRIGHTON, TENNESSEE 30 miles north of Memphis
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Re: no redbone expert.......

quote:
Originally posted by ringtail
but I don't think anybody was peeking over the fence, they was SNEAKING over the fence..... LOL J/K

I realize ur dogs are DNA'd, but this could be coming from 3 or 4 generations ago...... I'd say some where down the line there was a B&T outcross and the off colored pups r throw backs to that crossing.......




You are right. It is a throw back...But, I think she is gonna find the common link possibly even further than 3 or 4 generations. It's very possible that this could have come from twice that far back...

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Janet Ford
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: In the boonies of Michigan
Posts: 673

My litters are normally all sold long before I even allow visitors to see them. (I'm picky) I have a 2 wk old litter, also sired by the same dog and they have all been sold since before birth. I have 3 people wanting to send deposits towards these. I don't mean advertising as going out to find someone but rather to say "yeah, I have some redbone pups available. Only catch is, some are black and tans..." when someone asks about them. Guess it's all a bit fresh right now and too much whizzing around in my head.

What is super hilarious is I had to return deposits on a black/tan litter that was supposed to be born a week ago and she came up empty of pups. Maybe I should ask them if they would like a redbone dressed up as a black/tan? haha

I had been told "anyone who has been in redbones for any length of time has had a b/t born in one of their litters. If they tell you they haven't, they are lying through their teeth." That was someone on this forum a year or two ago. Sorry but I don't remember who. I just remember the remark because I'd never gotten one and always waited on the other end of that tail wondering if I ever would. Now I get THREE! LOL

TNridgerunner - I'll post updates on them from time to time on here for those who are curious. Got 2 female b/t and 1 male b/t. PM me if you would like to buy one.

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Janet Ford
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: In the boonies of Michigan
Posts: 673

Or maybe I won't find out at all.

Would love some more people to speak up on the lines they have seen this in. We could all learn from it. This type of stuff fascinates me anyhow. Recessive genes, sex linked... whatever... I'm just as interested in HOW it came about as to WHO it came from. I was told it was a result of throwbacks from the breeds that originally made up the redbones to begin with, not 'fence peekers'. Redbones were not always red...

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Sandi
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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Jefferson Ohio~ ashtabula co
Posts: 907

wow...

this is a stupid thought... when walker pups are born the "red heads" are black to start with. Could this possibly be the case? I am in awe but just had that thought pop into my head. Good luck no matter what color they may turn or not

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ringtail
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Tennessee
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you're right s/s......

quote:
Originally posted by s/s
You are right. It is a throw back...But, I think she is gonna find the common link possibly even further than 3 or 4 generations. It's very possible that this could have come from twice that far back...
I went back and changed my post to reflect 3,4,5 or more generations and that may not be far enough back.... unfortunately the answer could be so far back that records wasn't even kept and she'll never find out...... either way, the color don't make the dog...... I wouldn't cull 'em, I'm sure there r plenty of pleasure hunters that would love to have one of these pups..... it wouldn't bother me to hunt one.....

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TQS_Kennel
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Strunk, KY
Posts: 205

there is a guy down the road that has raised and hunted red bones for years, started with ukc reg. dogs and has kept his own records. About 4 or 5 years ago he had a litter of 7, 2 were and are B&T in color.

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s/s
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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: BRIGHTON, TENNESSEE 30 miles north of Memphis
Posts: 2169

Janet...Here are the links to Amazing Gracie & Bo's(Flaming Dynasty) pages on our site. You can see thier 4 generation pedigree there.

GRACIE
http://tiptopwebsite.com/websites/i...eek&page=17

BO
http://tiptopwebsite.com/websites/i...eek&page=10



Hey, you may be able to do some pedigree researching from
www.worldclassbreeder.com
Some of the data base is still not so complete.....While you are there maybe you could add some info.

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