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JerryWMorgan
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 59

Let’s see if I can ask this correctly. Would crossbreeding any two of the three English walker or bluetick, give you a true f1 pup other than on paper? Since they were all English at one point or have they been separated long enough to make a difference. Otherwise wouldn’t you have to breed to one of the other coonhound breeds to make a true f1 and get the hybrid vigor(not coonhunting vigor). Like a walker to a plott and the pups would be a true f1 and may show some hybrid vigor.

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Jerry Morgan

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Old Post 02-06-2020 07:14 PM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:
Originally posted by JerryWMorgan
Let’s see if I can ask this correctly. Would crossbreeding any two of the three English walker or bluetick, give you a true f1 pup other than on paper? Since they were all English at one point or have they been separated long enough to make a difference. Otherwise wouldn’t you have to breed to one of the other coonhound breeds to make a true f1 and get the hybrid vigor(not coonhunting vigor). Like a walker to a plott and the pups would be a true f1 and may show some hybrid vigor.



Jerry that’s the way I get it but only if the outcross stud was a proven reproducer.


Tar

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Old Post 02-06-2020 07:23 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

Tar,

Now according to some "experts" you can completely change the makeup of a hound in 3 or 4 generations. That's why you see so many guys getting bent out of shape over the x bred program.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Old Post 02-06-2020 07:43 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Tar,

Now according to some "experts" you can completely change the makeup of a hound in 3 or 4 generations. That's why you see so many guys getting bent out of shape over the x bred program.





6 generations later I still see ole rattler traits from time to time. But there is a big difference in seeing traits and getting that complete , indifferent , athelete.


Tar

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Old Post 02-06-2020 07:48 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

I definitely agree with what you're saying. You'll see some traits from the common denominator, but I personally think you need to look forward not backwards. But a nobody in the coonhound world. I think you'll be happy with what you'll get breeding to mafia stock. But I haven't seen too many go out of him. We don't seem to have any up here.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Old Post 02-06-2020 07:55 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
I definitely agree with what you're saying. You'll see some traits from the common denominator, but I personally think you need to look forward not backwards. But a nobody in the coonhound world. I think you'll be happy with what you'll get breeding to mafia stock. But I haven't seen too many go out of him. We don't seem to have any up here.



I do more research than most know hunted with 4 out of shack and different females they all tree coons with good track speed no loose barking and big monster locates a kid could call.


The other option I was considering just showed me not to reproduce none of that.


Tar

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Old Post 02-06-2020 08:08 PM
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Matt Souders
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Merersburg PA
Posts: 68

quote:
Originally posted by JerryWMorgan
Let’s see if I can ask this correctly. Would crossbreeding any two of the three English walker or bluetick, give you a true f1 pup other than on paper? Since they were all English at one point or have they been separated long enough to make a difference. Otherwise wouldn’t you have to breed to one of the other coonhound breeds to make a true f1 and get the hybrid vigor(not coonhunting vigor). Like a walker to a plott and the pups would be a true f1 and may show some hybrid vigor.


I don't think you have to go to plott to get a true f1 breeding. if you get back 5-6 generations with no common ancestry the breeding coeffeiciency drops dramatically. I think it could possibly be done in the walker breed and definitely in English, blue tick, or any of the other breeds. I thing a heavy line bred beashers bloy blue II stud from the English lines would get what your looking for if you wanted to try another breed.

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Old Post 02-06-2020 08:24 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I do more research than most know hunted with 4 out of shack and different females they all tree coons with good track speed no loose barking and big monster locates a kid could call.


The other option I was considering just showed me not to reproduce none of that.


Tar



I hope your successful in what you're trying to do regardless if you stay within the breed.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Old Post 02-06-2020 10:03 PM
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thomasg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
So what you're saying is a pup from a Walker female and a GSP will be more likely to make a good coon dog than a pup from the same Walker female and Big Country. And if you want a dog with wheels and no brains, you don't need an English pointer. I've had a few registered Walkers like that.
at least with country the pups would sale for good $ and you wouldn't be stuck with the whole litter no one was interested in ,

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