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UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > 13. Scratched for Fighting
Scratch For Fighting While Off Leash and During Hunt Time Only?
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Yes, per the proposal. 36 46.15%
No, per the current rule "under the authority of the judge". 42 53.85%
Total: 78 votes 100%
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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
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13. Scratched for Fighting

13. Scratched for Fighting.

ē Change rule to scratch dogs for fighting or attempting to fight during hunt time only and shall further include while dogs are off leash and during any time out periods during the hunt.




2019 UKC RULE PROPOSAL CLARIFICATIONS AND NOTES
Be advised, the following notes are the opinions/statements of those who submitted the proposals and may or may not necessarily reflect the opinion of UKC.

PROPOSAL 13: This rule keeps dogs from getting scratched while in the dog box or while on leash. Sometimes dogs do not get along as well with others when sharing small spaces in a box with a strange dog when they otherwise donít have temperament issues when on the hunt.

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Old Post 06-25-2019 01:42 PM
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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 3814

Cheyenne's opinion is his responsibility as a judge should begin when he states "cut em'" and should end when the last tree is scored. It is impossible to police dog boxes in others trucks during transport and happenings at the grounds are the responsibilities of the host club not assigned judges hunt judges should be just that judge the hunt.. Judges are not babies sitters for up 4 or even more trucks and upto 8 individuals before a hunt begins and after until the cards are turned in.

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Sgraves
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quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Cheyenne's opinion is his responsibility as a judge should begin when he states "cut em'" and should end when the last tree is scored. It is impossible to police dog boxes in others trucks during transport and happenings at the grounds are the responsibilities of the host club not assigned judges hunt judges should be just that judge the hunt.. Judges are not babies sitters for up 4 or even more trucks and upto 8 individuals before a hunt begins and after until the cards are turned in.
👍👍

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Pat Bizich
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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1129

Shakey ground here. I have personally witnessed two dogs get into a fight while still on the leash as the judge was calling for them to be released. Might be a rare occasion but it happens . On lead ,off lead . It is still a fight.
Some hunt rules spill over to bench shows and dogs too. So if two dogs ,on club grounds, on a leash, waiting to show get into a fight . Do they get a pass because they are on a leash? Waiting to show and not actually in the arena?

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 06-26-2019 at 09:31 AM

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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 3814

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
Shakey ground here. I have personally witnessed two dogs get into a fight while still on the leash as the judge was calling for them to be released. Might be a rare occasion but it happens . On lead ,off lead . It is still a fight.
Some hunt rules spill over to bench shows and dogs too. So if two dogs ,on club grounds, on a leash, waiting to show get into a fight . Do they get a pass because they are on a leash? Waiting to show and not actually in the arena?


These are Nite hunt rule change proposals not bench show changes.

__________________
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Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
GRCH GRNITECH PKC GCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMI-FINALIST. 2016 UKC TOP 20. 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE. 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4. 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION
NITECH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

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Sgraves
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Posts: 123

Some are going to say this doesnít apply to coon dogs , but I say it does. A friend of mine has hog dogs . They are cur an American bull dog mixed . He can turn them loose in the yard or put them in the dog box together an their well mannered. But when it comes hunting time you have to watch them . We hunt out of a boat a good bit. You better keep them tied apart because a fight will break out. You better find hogs pretty quick or they will get bored an a fight will break out . Some will say they are mean. I donít think that way. A dog is no different than a human. Itís excitement level gets high when itís doing what it loves to do an bred to do. Coondogs are no different . No am not promoting a fight or saying let them fight. Itís what I mean when I say itís gonna happen. Yes there are flat out mean dogs that needs a bullet . When you walk in between a dog an the tree itís treeing on an it bites you , I say itís excited so to speak. Face barking, itís aggressive behavior . But again itís excited to be treeing. In no way am I saying let them fight . People is just wanting to scratch dogs for being just that a dog. Sometimes we have to use a little common sense an scratch when itís really needed not just because we can.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8919

A mean dog is just the same as a babbling dog to me when people know it and use it for an advantage. When a fight breaks out the mans demeanor that owns the dog means a lot the way I will handle things.



Tar

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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3669

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Cheyenne's opinion is his responsibility as a judge should begin when he states "cut em'" and should end when the last tree is scored. It is impossible to police dog boxes in others trucks during transport and happenings at the grounds are the responsibilities of the host club not assigned judges hunt judges should be just that judge the hunt.. Judges are not babies sitters for up 4 or even more trucks and upto 8 individuals before a hunt begins and after until the cards are turned in.


This is the problem, its a really rare event that you have two dogs get in a fight and then release the dogs together and not have a problem. Or have one of the 2 that got into the fight get onto another dog. It isn't saying they are mean it just happens sometimes but once they get started a lot of them cant turn it off. If a dog fight breaks out in a dog box its more than likely fixing to happen in the woods also. Count on it.

If you got a dog that jumps another one on the leash it needs gone, not turned loose with everything else because the two hours hasn't started yet. For a judge its not hard. If you see the fight in the box or on the leash then scratch them. If you didn't see it go on with the hunt.

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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1129

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
These are Nite hunt rule change proposals not bench show changes.


Exactly! Bingo!

So per the proposal it will be okay for hunt dogs to get into a fight on a leash and no scratch but at a bench show dogs will still be scratched?

As I stated hunt rules can and do cross over to bench show dogs such as two dogs that fight. Another case point. The 5
win requirement .

I over analyze every thing so don't mind me.
But really many of the rule proposals that have been submitted need either revised/ reworded or a little more thought of the possible consequences of the changes.

This is why everyone is on here debating .

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 06-27-2019 at 04:49 AM

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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 3814

See, don't use that word lol, you don't have to see. And how do you as a judge watch the dogs in your cast at the club house and while driving to and from hunting ground in separate trucks? Judges should no be responsible for judging actions not related to the "hunt". They are judges not baby sitting If they fight during the hunt scratch them. People's actions on the grounds and even dogs should not be the responsibility of the judge. A good portion of the time a card comes in with the winner and the judge may not but his authority goes until the card hits the table. And how in the world can cast members vote on this stuff when they are probably not all present to be a witness?
Question?? What do you do if dogs get into a fight before the cast is drawn out? With people you can write them up for misconduct.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
GRCH GRNITECH PKC GCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMI-FINALIST. 2016 UKC TOP 20. 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE. 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4. 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION
NITECH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3669

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
See, don't use that word lol, you don't have to see. And how do you as a judge watch the dogs in your cast at the club house and while driving to and from hunting ground in separate trucks? Judges should no be responsible for judging actions not related to the "hunt". They are judges not baby sitting If they fight during the hunt scratch them. People's actions on the grounds and even dogs should not be the responsibility of the judge. A good portion of the time a card comes in with the winner and the judge may not but his authority goes until the card hits the table. And how in the world can cast members vote on this stuff when they are probably not all present to be a witness?
Question?? What do you do if dogs get into a fight before the cast is drawn out? With people you can write them up for misconduct.



If they fight before draw out you do not do anything with them. If they fight in a truck and no one seen it you do not do anything with them, But if they fight and the judge sees it they are scratched. You do not have to go around monitoring everything before you cut them loose. Its been like this sense the beginning and has not been a problem. Its not the judges responsibility unless he is made aware of it and then if he sees it he can scratch. Two dogs that have just been in a fight do not need cut loose with other dogs period.

That rule has a purpose to keep dogs that have been fighting out of the woods with other dogs. There is no extra burden on the judge to make sure they do no fight. If he sees it fine if not that's fine too.

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pigsit
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I think the existing rule works pretty good, lets leave it. I hate a rough dog, and I want him out quick, too many get a pass.

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coondogedog
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When the judge gets the scorecard he's in control of the cast. If a dog fight happens anywhere scratch them.

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