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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

Only thing I can figure out is too much inbreeding. My pup has had lots of specialized attention and I'm home with him every day. First 9 weeks he was sleeping in the house next to my bed but was wanting to go outside 2-6 times per night. He also eats dog chit and barks in the yard at every thing from lizards to ravens, rabbits, deer and won't shut up unless I go out there and confront him. By the way, I have never laid a hand on this dog although maybe I should have. Definitely my last Kemmer.

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Old Post 05-31-2019 09:44 PM
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croatankid
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
Posts: 2784

I recall several years ago I read a post where a guy was going to bred his kemmer before she had ever been hunted. I questioned the wisdom of not proving the dogs hunting before breeding and got a bunch of crap about how those dogs were so good that they didn't need proving. My dog is a good hunter and she has a lot of go but she is missing social skills and a handle. I agree with you, I too think folks were breeding for hunt and not watching the rest of the package.

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Old Post 06-01-2019 05:27 PM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

He did good today...I leashed him and lead him back to truck.

Last edited by mike berger on 06-02-2019 at 04:37 PM

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Old Post 06-01-2019 06:20 PM
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nccatfisher
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1589

You really need to have your dog tone broke before you ever take it out hunting. That way it knows to come when you tone it. Right now as you mentioned it is confused by the toning and shocking.

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Old Post 06-05-2019 04:56 AM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

No, he knows what the tone means and will return to me when I tone him unless as I said, we are almost back to the truck and he bolts off into the distance because he doesn't want to go home. Every time we go out hunting I tone him back to me at least once to refresh it in his mind, but the further distance from me he is, the less responsive he is to the tone.

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Old Post 06-05-2019 01:31 PM
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dbender
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 143

He's not tone broke then, just a little bent. You need more yard work and your satisfaction level with the dog will go way up.

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Old Post 06-05-2019 11:44 PM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

I really don't think short range toning practise in the yard is going to change anything. He always returns when toned now EXCEPT when we approach my truck, then he bolts to the next county and ignores tones AND level 5 shocks. Every other day we hunt and I tone him in to reinforce the behavior and he always comes to me...EXCEPT as previously stated.

Last edited by mike berger on 06-06-2019 at 12:03 AM

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Old Post 06-05-2019 11:52 PM
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croatankid
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
Posts: 2784

I had to go way higher than 5 several times to get mine turned around. Even now, at 9 years of age, I'll have to use a 5 sometimes. Usually she'll give up and come on with a 2. She knows very well what I want but wants to go her own way. The hardest part for me was worrying if I was somehow confusing her, or maybe the collar wasn't working or the transmitter wasn't working. But when I got the Garmin and a new shocker I saw what she was doing and it gave me the confidence to lay into her. That is the only thing that saved her as a hunting dog.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 01:00 AM
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nccatfisher
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1589

I am not going to argue with you but your dog is not tone broke. I have been working with them ever since tone has been an option on training collars. I have been able to tone mine off trees if they were in places I couldn't get to them.

I recently started back deer hunting with dogs after near a 20 year lull. I started back with mature dogs that were not familiar with tone at all. They are not fully broke yet but to the season I will have them where they will break off a track running a deer to the tone. If you can get a dog to do that getting one to come no matter the distance isn't an issue.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 03:40 AM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

Very different dogs obviously....You probably haven't encountered the type of bull headed dog we're talking about. Hopefully there aren't many around.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 04:04 AM
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nccatfisher
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 1589

I have been hunting OMCs, Kemmer and Stephens curs as well as hounds about 45 years. I can't say I have encountered it all but I have run across just about everything you could think of. I still say it is a matter of patience, time and most of all knowledge.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 05:14 AM
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dbender
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 143

quote:
Originally posted by mike berger
Very different dogs obviously....You probably haven't encountered the type of bull headed dog we're talking about. Hopefully there aren't many around.


You've never seen bullheaded until you get a pack of deer dogs together😁.
It isnt the dog that's bullheaded. Why would you get on a forum looking for advice and then argue with people trying to help you out?
Your dog isn't some new strain we've never seen before. You have a simple problem. Your dog does not view you as the pack leader. Instead of arguing with people trying to offer advice why not ask the veterans how they go about tone breaking their dogs?
If you dont like the dog and believe its the particular breed or think its genetic( it isn't), just get rid of the dog and get yourself a cat.
For the record I'm not qualified to give advice on tone training I dont have a shocker or tone collar. I still just use a switch, it just takes a lot longer.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 02:13 PM
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tn russ
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2013
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 299

quote:
Originally posted by dbender
You've never seen bullheaded until you get a pack of deer dogs together😁.
It isnt the dog that's bullheaded. Why would you get on a forum looking for advice and then argue with people trying to help you out?
Your dog isn't some new strain we've never seen before. You have a simple problem. Your dog does not view you as the pack leader. Instead of arguing with people trying to offer advice why not ask the veterans how they go about tone breaking their dogs?
If you dont like the dog and believe its the particular breed or think its genetic( it isn't), just get rid of the dog and get yourself a cat.
For the record I'm not qualified to give advice on tone training I dont have a shocker or tone collar. I still just use a switch, it just takes a lot longer.


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Old Post 06-06-2019 02:31 PM
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tn russ
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2013
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 299

Reading this i realized mine aren't tone broke either
And i really don't care

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Old Post 06-06-2019 02:34 PM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

quote:
Originally posted by dbender
You've never seen bullheaded until you get a pack of deer dogs together😁.
It isnt the dog that's bullheaded. Why would you get on a forum looking for advice and then argue with people trying to help you out?
Your dog isn't some new strain we've never seen before. You have a simple problem. Your dog does not view you as the pack leader. Instead of arguing with people trying to offer advice why not ask the veterans how they go about tone breaking their dogs?
If you dont like the dog and believe its the particular breed or think its genetic( it isn't), just get rid of the dog and get yourself a cat.
For the record I'm not qualified to give advice on tone training I dont have a shocker or tone collar. I still just use a switch, it just takes a lot longer.






Lol.....Someone should use a switch on YOU.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 03:48 PM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

quote:
Originally posted by croatankid
I had to go way higher than 5 several times to get mine turned around. Even now, at 9 years of age, I'll have to use a 5 sometimes. Usually she'll give up and come on with a 2. She knows very well what I want but wants to go her own way. The hardest part for me was worrying if I was somehow confusing her, or maybe the collar wasn't working or the transmitter wasn't working. But when I got the Garmin and a new shocker I saw what she was doing and it gave me the confidence to lay into her. That is the only thing that saved her as a hunting dog.





Hey Croat, let me tell ya what he did today. We leave the truck, hike up canyon about a mile. I toned him back to me 3 times and he responded well and returned. We hike up a side canyon 2 hundred yards and he leaves out...At 400 yards I tone him, nothing, tone him again, nothing, shock him, nothing. He's at 6-7-9 hundred yards with repeated toning and shocking and still no response. By now (10 minutes) he's at the truck I hike back to truck and he's still there. Oh well, I guess it's better than before. I'm gonna give him another couple months and then decide if I wanna put up with this type of dog. I don't blame the dog, he behaves this way because of his breeding/genetics. The breeder labels his dogs as "big game Kemmers" and I wondered why, maybe this is why. The breeder said he would hunt out to 3 hundred yards and "check back". He didn't say how often he would check back, maybe it was every 2-3 days...

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Old Post 06-06-2019 04:07 PM
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croatankid
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2007
Location: jacksonville, nc
Posts: 2784

You bring up a good point. Sometimes a dog understands the tone, vibrate, shock to be a sign to go to the truck or someother place they see as being safe instead of coming back to you. I was working on getting my kemmer back one time and she jumped into the bed of the truck instead of coming to me. Another time I buzzed a dog while I was in a field near my house. Instead of coming to me, she went home and was waiting for me. so keep that in mind.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 04:50 PM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

Same thing I thought. Maybe he panics when shocked and doesn't know what to do and heads for a safe place, although I alwys tone several times before I shock him and give him a chance to respond. In today's fiasco he simply ignored the repeated tones and only then did I shock. The ideal situation would be in a big open area where I could have visual contact, let him get out 7-8 hundred yards, tone and observe. Wheres my Advil...

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Old Post 06-06-2019 05:06 PM
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dbender
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 143

My bad seems like i gave you some bad advice. You seem to have him headed in the right direction now.

I wish the best of luck to your dog. Maybe he'll slip his collar and run off. I'll be pulling for him!

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Old Post 06-06-2019 05:11 PM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

quote:
Originally posted by dbender
My bad seems like i gave you some bad advice. You seem to have him headed in the right direction now.

I wish the best of luck to your dog. Maybe he'll slip his collar and run off. I'll be pulling for him!






That's funny...You can have him free, no shipping.
He has a microchip but I don't think they work if he makes it to Canada or Mexico.

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Old Post 06-06-2019 05:37 PM
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tn russ
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2013
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 299

quote:
Originally posted by dbender
My bad seems like i gave you some bad advice. You seem to have him headed in the right direction now.

I wish the best of luck to your dog. Maybe he'll slip his collar and run off. I'll be pulling for him!


Rolol

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Old Post 06-07-2019 01:09 AM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

Hey Russ...Sounds like your dogs need some yard work also..lol

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Old Post 06-07-2019 02:15 AM
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tn russ
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2013
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 299

Oh yeah ... they need work
I usually 95% of the time hunt national Forest

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Old Post 06-07-2019 02:18 AM
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mike berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Silver City NM
Posts: 38

me too. Gila

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Old Post 06-07-2019 02:19 AM
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tn russ
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2013
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 299

What in the world do you hunt for ?

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