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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2100

Re: End of an Era

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Knuckols
With the prevalence of deep and lonely and the way most hunters are embarrassed or disgusted if their hound works with another dog in our area we don't have the acreage to hold a 2 hour hunt . Mine included is a big hunting dog . I haven't man made him like most of the guys training their dog to get away from others but half the time he checks out and does his thing . I have 1 lease that is around 750 acres and when I take a cast it works out to be 1 drop due to the dogs scattering . If I try for a second drop and we are trespassing . My question is why are so many whipping and shocking their hound to be solo unless they are just ill tempered and they cant stand to put them down . From what Ive witnessed if another dog covers one they get ate up or the solo dog leaves . I don't like a big eared dog either that quits and runs to another to back them it just takes around 2000 acres to hold a cast where you can recut . Recutting to me is what separates the elite hounds .unless we go the way of the deer hunter and lease up large tracks of land the competition part of hunting is going to disappear around here . what are others doing to find spots or tracts of land large enough for cast . Texas is not a right to retrieve state and they right some hefty tickets around here especially in deer season .


Mike as to your original question I think TX is a special case. Their property laws to my understanding are much more stringent than that of the Midwest, and the South East, so I can see how there is a larger problem than there is here. My personal experience at larger events the last few years is not so grim. We hunted in Salem a few weeks ago, and dogs got deep and the guides were all wonderful, and we had no problems in the 5 casts I was in. Personally we can handle casts here in North MO without trouble, even being along the IA line where deer hunting is so popular.

That being said I think the KCs are adapting to a difference in how we free cast large groups of dogs. The rules are changing, and while independence is still going to be popular, I think the big hunting dogs that have to be a mile before they get treed will get less and less popular.

We hunted a cast up here in April in which we never pulled a dog off of the same tree, and treed 11 coons in two hours, and never got off of a 600 acre tract. I realize coon population has a lot to do with it, but I hunt that same farm a lot and have seen dogs go straight through it before they got treed as well.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9609

Bruce we all get old and this tread was started saying the fact that dogs have been created to the point that the clubs cannot accomadate enough hunting territory because the way they have been bred and trained to be alone.


I was still hunting in the $$$ hunts when the wipe out hounds evolved they were the first to be that type of hound they were built for the first strike and the leash lock rule I seen that with my own eyes in aroura ky were it was the norm to get in a cast with only one coon to tree now that itís moved the numbers are better.


Up till a couple years ago you defended the wipeout dogs and I just assumed you still had some.

Josh come on down or do you want me to come up there ?



Are we having fun yet I am having a blast lol.


Tar

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Old Post 11-21-2019 02:50 PM
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tommygunner
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Registered: Jul 2019
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Lol last 3 that went to tars to hunt brought there measuring sticks dogs and Tars dog shortened them for em

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Old Post 11-22-2019 12:34 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3537

Tommygunner

Lol. Tar definitely took a knife to their measuring sticks, some came carrying a club and left with a matchstick. Tar likes to stir things a little, but he knows a coon dog. You can not discount a man's opinion on dogs when it's based on facts. Tar likes to dish it out, but he can take it, that's a whole lot more than some folks can do. Some dish it out, but can not take it in return, I say if you can not take the heat, don't go near the stove. Don't like what he posts, don't read it. Dave

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Old Post 11-22-2019 01:21 AM
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Mike Knuckols
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Harleton Texas
Posts: 452

I hunted in Tars area/ woods . He put us in some coons for sure . I wouldn't want to get on his bad side or you may end up at Rocky Point lol. That place is so thick and rough they have to pipe sunlight in there . That coon came out of that thicket and gave us the California Howdy and was gone . We had to go in and cut the dogs out . He is blessed with some coons and good timber and you won't find better hospitality anywhere . I like it when he stirs the pot to get people thinking but alot of the responses are pretty personal and to put it bluntly " tacky " . I hope the hunts survive here but they won't during deer season . I'm gonna continue to lease land to insure I have a place to start and train the last 3 Extra Man pups I've got . I believe they will take me on out .

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Vic Stoll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1613

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
HA, If I had feelings you may have hurt them.

And yes, I am soft, and I discount your credibility.





Címon Josh, havenít you read the chronicles of tarbaby ... how to become a legend in your own mind? Chapter 2 ... that ainít tobacco juice on each side of tarbabyís mouth! Chapter 3 ... donít ask my okie dog to tree a coon in Georgia ... whah whah whah dryholed

Donít despair tarbaby, my potlickers struggle to tree sick ones in the southwest Ohio woodlot coon zoo, I canít imagine how sorry they would look in Oklahoma, let alone Georgia! Counterfeit blue dogs!

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Old Post 11-22-2019 07:25 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9609

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll


Címon Josh, havenít you read the chronicles of tarbaby ... how to become a legend in your own mind? Chapter 2 ... that ainít tobacco juice on each side of tarbabyís mouth! Chapter 3 ... donít ask my okie dog to tree a coon in Georgia ... whah whah whah dryholed

Donít despair tarbaby, my potlickers struggle to tree sick ones in the southwest Ohio woodlot coon zoo, I canít imagine how sorry they would look in Oklahoma, let alone Georgia! Counterfeit blue dogs!




Vic my dogs tree slick , mud hole around , and run off game just like everybody elseís. Mike sorry I got defensive I been watching the impeachment hearings all week lol. Vic I got guys that live here that discount what I say because for one I did it with my own effort , my own hard work without a sugar daddy paying the way since I have lived in Oklahoma. Now when I lived in Texas they donít know I was around a lot of influential people that help shape coonhunting as we know it. This place I live now ainít never amounted to a hill of beans because of work ethic and jealousy and it probly never will. Now any 61 year old man thatís been where I been and done what I done and hunted since he was a young teenager should have the same story I am not the only one in all these storyís there were others that just let a kid that loved coonhunting hang out with them. Most are all gone I miss my buddies I never had to be nobody but me for them.


Vic you want to come down or me come up there ?



Tar

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Old Post 11-22-2019 10:48 AM
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Vic Stoll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1613

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Vic my dogs tree slick , mud hole around , and run off game just like everybody elseís. Mike sorry I got defensive I been watching the impeachment hearings all week lol. Vic I got guys that live here that discount what I say because for one I did it with my own effort , my own hard work without a sugar daddy paying the way since I have lived in Oklahoma. Now when I lived in Texas they donít know I was around a lot of influential people that help shape coonhunting as we know it. This place I live now ainít never amounted to a hill of beans because of work ethic and jealousy and it probly never will. Now any 61 year old man thatís been where I been and done what I done and hunted since he was a young teenager should have the same story I am not the only one in all these storyís there were others that just let a kid that loved coonhunting hang out with them. Most are all gone I miss my buddies I never had to be nobody but me for them.

Vic you want to come down or me come up there ?

Tar



tarbaby, nobody ever said you weren't bonafide!

I'm sure I have just as much desire to hunt in Oklahoma as you do to hunt in Ohio. What would the point be of traveling all that way to show one another common counterfeit dogs in timber?

I'm still a working stiff tarbaby, a contract slug with limited annual time off. If you feel so inclined, you're more than welcome to come up to this coon zoo. Deer gun season starts the week after Thanksgiving & runs for a full week. After that is over, opportunity abounds

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Nt Ch Beckyís Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

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Mike Knuckols
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Harleton Texas
Posts: 452

I was making 3 trips a year in the spring and summer to Smith Center Kansas lots of walk up land no snakes!!!!! Coons really really run there and a hound has to be able to push those giant prairie coons and they are plentiful . I lost my job 2 years ago and now I work straight nights 2 weekends a month off and they get reserved for the grand babies . I have a few of the best hounds a man could ever hope to follow but unless UKC starts letting us hold some weekday hunts I may not get to title another hound . We have a club in Harleton Texas " Lake o Pines " . We meet at my home and can put 4 cast in the timber within 5 miles . These spots with the loner dogs are good for 1 drop . I have 3 more spots that if all worked out right we could manage 90 minute cast . Our future is bleak here . Not meaning to be gloom and doom . When I train I seldom hunt two together but when I do I usually lead 1 hound into another's tree and about 50 yards from tree I send them the other direction . My intent is not to create a loner but to not allow them to cover a closed tree . Usually dogs are split close and if you recut and a dog is treeing 50 yards away the young ones would back . I just discourage that . But if they strike together they work together if they can keep up with Extra Man .When I'm not with the hounds I'm in my boat rippin lips on those channel cats . I caught close to 1000 this summer on a 16 ft pole and cork . I use my bait Catfish Yum . "Getcha Some " . If any of you guys or girls wanna come down for a hunt and squeeze in a Catfish trip . " The big Yummer " will put you on them . I'll even clean them for you and of course cook them .

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Cold Traxx Kennels .com
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Knuckols Hooker
NITECH Cypress River Chance
NITECH Cypress River Honey
NITECH Cypress River Princess
NITECH Newcombs Miss Molly
NITECH Wilsons Hardwood Ann
GRCH GRNTCH Paulding Forrest Bubba

Last edited by Mike Knuckols on 11-22-2019 at 09:50 PM

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Old Post 11-22-2019 03:37 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9609

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
tarbaby, nobody ever said you weren't bonafide!

I'm sure I have just as much desire to hunt in Oklahoma as you do to hunt in Ohio. What would the point be of traveling all that way to show one another common counterfeit dogs in timber?

I'm still a working stiff tarbaby, a contract slug with limited annual time off. If you feel so inclined, you're more than welcome to come up to this coon zoo. Deer gun season starts the week after Thanksgiving & runs for a full week. After that is over, opportunity abounds




It would be an enjoyable vacation to hunt with you. Itís not fit for man nor beast down here especially if they both are long in the tooth. These canyons and briers well you know what I mean.


Tar

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nitehunter2004
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12074

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
It would be an enjoyable vacation to hunt with you. Itís not fit for man nor beast down here especially if they both are long in the tooth. These canyons and briers well you know what I mean.


Tar


I drove 18 hours to Oklahoma City then another 4 hours to go hunting with you, I hunted a 12 month old pup and she looked purty darn good after the 1st drop and being hauled 22 hours, now the places we hunted was better than anything I have here, the pecan bottom we hunted was nice as any iv hunted from SC, GA, Miss or Fl.
So load up an come East, itís a big world.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9609

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
I drove 18 hours to Oklahoma City then another 4 hours to go hunting with you, I hunted a 12 month old pup and she looked purty darn good after the 1st drop and being hauled 22 hours, now the places we hunted was better than anything I have here, the pecan bottom we hunted was nice as any iv hunted from SC, GA, Miss or Fl.
So load up an come East, itís a big world.





Pecan bottoms are good right now because there are pecans but trust me this by the house not so good lots of coons but ruuuuuuuuuuuff. Thatís private land where I took you but I canít hunt it during rifle season it starts tomorrow for two weeks. Corey got some freedom now he took care of his grandpa for several years I am proud of him we can travel now. Things I want him to see.

Tar

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Old Post 11-22-2019 04:02 PM
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Hittman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 160

I have some major hunts and poeple on my list to vist. I'll be seeing you guys really soon. All I got is old blood breed hounds that have faults but were going to give all we got. Deer season ends December 9th in Oklahoma then its game on. I breed my gyp in October and got 4 nice pups iam super excited about. My male pup will be ready around September to hit the woods.

PS remember this name
Yadkin Tar Coonbustin Bud
Will see how he turns out.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17717

Is the Grand American on your list? What about the Winter Classic?

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yadkintar
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Location: Marietta
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Is the Grand American on your list? What about the Winter Classic?



To cold.


Tar

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Hittman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 160

Winter classic is one I have been tossing around. It's about 8 hours from me.

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tommygunner
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Tar ad Hit man I will go to the winter classic and pay for us a room if you promise me you will come we will hunt all the pre hunts or slams too its 6 hours for me too

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9609

quote:
Originally posted by tommygunner
Tar ad Hit man I will go to the winter classic and pay for us a room if you promise me you will come we will hunt all the pre hunts or slams too its 6 hours for me too



Itís up to Corey I ainít got nothing going on right now.


Tar

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Hittman
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Posts: 160

TommyGunner.

I appreciate the offer. It's a toss up between autumn oaks and winter classic.

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Hittman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
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Posts: 160

Going to the Texas state hunt definitely. It's been years since I have been to Fairfield. Use to go with my grandpa all the time.

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Richard Lambert
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Oh my goodness, is this the end of an era or the beginning of an era.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17717

The pack dog era slowly morphed into the tree dog era. Does anyone know when the tree dog era ended and the independent dog era began? The independant dog era slowly morphed into the deep and alone era. Will 2020 become the year the deep and alone era ends and the close and alone era begins?

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9609

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
The pack dog era slowly morphed into the tree dog era. Does anyone know when the tree dog era ended and the independent dog era began? The independant dog era slowly morphed into the deep and alone era. Will 2020 become the year the deep and alone era ends and the close and alone era begins?




In any game the rules determine how the game is played. You put major money on the line any big player is going to do whatever they have to to up their odds. Las Vegas surveillance, facial recognition databases, and well trained security to keep people from working the odds in their favor. You change the rules you change the style of dogs hunted.


Tar

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17717

Tarbaby, what rule change caused the tree dog era? And then what rule change caused the deep and alone era?

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9609

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Tarbaby, what rule change caused the tree dog era? And then what rule change caused the deep and alone era?



I donít know about the tree dog era because I never knew a period in the hunts that we didnít have tree dogs. Some just had more coons than others. Deep and alone is when they learned to use the lax babbling rule along with the leash lock. When I first started you had 3 minutes the first drop after that on or before the first bark three barks off the snap you got minused.


Tar

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