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Now there you go being logical, you know some folks just can not grasp logic, they live in a black and white world where things are either one way or the other. They can not grasp the idea of things being a number of different ways, to them it's one of two ways only. You are wasting your time and reasoning when you try to be logical with folks that do not know what logic is. We both have presented the question without getting an answer, would any man just stand there and let another man beat on Him or would he fight back? Some posters on this thread have inferred that a dog that fights back is mean and or a fighter, with that kind of reasoning most men are mean, as most men will definitely fight back. I refuse to let someone hit on me without fighting back, yet I will never start a fight and will do everything I can to avoid a fight, just do not hit on me. I also, refuse to let that define me as a mean man, I am NOT a mean man. I owned one of the most peaceful dogs I have ever seen, dogs could jump and crawl all over him at a tree or anywhere and not a growl, but if a mean dog took hold of him he would fight back, I refuse any notion that he was mean or a fighter, that's nonsense. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Sorry guys we know if we have a mean dog. I have one and I know it. I don’t hunt him with anything else. He is one hell of a dog but I won’t do the injustice of hurting another dog. Honesty is the best policy.

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You got that right, everyone knows if their dog is actually mean and should never hunt a mean dog with anyone else's dog. Everything is not just black and white, meaning a peaceful dog can be provoked to fight by a mean dog. Most dogs like most men do not want to fight, but even the most peaceful dogs and men can be pushed into a fight. There is a BIG BIG difference in defending ones self than being a trouble maker looking for a fight, and if folks really don't know the difference, it's pretty sad. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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It would be real interesting to know how often these dogs are defending themselves throughout the year?

There are no doubt instances when a good dog gets involved in things he didn’t necessarily intend to. But those times are rare in my experience. Most of the time the men that have dogs that “defend” themselves have witnessed this defense more times than is acceptable to consider it a defensive behavior.

I have a few family members that never make bad decisions or are never in the wrong but trouble seems to just follow them around!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ghost14
It would be real interesting to know how often these dogs are defending themselves throughout the year?

There are no doubt instances when a good dog gets involved in things he didn’t necessarily intend to. But those times are rare in my experience. Most of the time the men that have dogs that “defend” themselves have witnessed this defense more times than is acceptable to consider it a defensive behavior.

I have a few family members that never make bad decisions or are never in the wrong but trouble seems to just follow them around!

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Now that's a different story, a peaceful dog just like a peaceful man should rarely be in a fight. If a fight happened often with a man or dog, calling them peaceful would be a real stretch. A man or dog having to fight on a regular basis is the aggressor not the one defending himself. A man knows if he is the aggressor and he also know if his dog is aggressive, but lumping every dog and every man that defends themselves the rare times it's needed and calling them mean is absurd. I have not been in a fight in 40 years, but I have not needed to defend myself or I would. I have not seen or heard a dog fight in many years, but I still would want my dog to fight back if a mean dog jumped on Him or Her. Most of this talk about mean dogs is directed at those who knowingly hunt a mean or aggressive dog without regard for their fellow hunters dogs. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Good post Dave...

What Ghost14 described is that of a mean dog in my opinion...

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Would it be fair if a dog gets scratched for fighting he gets one strike the owner/handler also gets a strike after three strikes the dog is barred for life and the owner/handler for one year for the first offence no UKC events on second offence{different dog} five years third offence for good ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by 100%hunter
Would it be fair if a dog gets scratched for fighting he gets one strike the owner/handler also gets a strike after three strikes the dog is barred for life and the owner/handler for one year for the first offence no UKC events on second offence{different dog} five years third offence for good ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Now there you go being logical, you know some folks just can not grasp logic, they live in a black and white world where things are either one way or the other. They can not grasp the idea of things being a number of different ways, to them it's one of two ways only. You are wasting your time and reasoning when you try to be logical with folks that do not know what logic is. We both have presented the question without getting an answer, would any man just stand there and let another man beat on Him or would he fight back? Some posters on this thread have inferred that a dog that fights back is mean and or a fighter, with that kind of reasoning most men are mean, as most men will definitely fight back. I refuse to let someone hit on me without fighting back, yet I will never start a fight and will do everything I can to avoid a fight, just do not hit on me. I also, refuse to let that define me as a mean man, I am NOT a mean man. I owned one of the most peaceful dogs I have ever seen, dogs could jump and crawl all over him at a tree or anywhere and not a growl, but if a mean dog took hold of him he would fight back, I refuse any notion that he was mean or a fighter, that's nonsense. Dave

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I like all my dogs to be dominant yet I want them to get along with each other... I must be careful how I manage my dogs at feeding time...I am careful on how I turn out males and females...

I don’t leave a bone out in the yard or there will be a fight if I don’t read the signs quickly...

If a female is in heat I turn out males one at a time or I watch them closely...
For many years I let pups fight it out to establish dominance and pecking order...I stopped doing that and just recently feed all pups I keep in one big pan and I make sure they learn to eat without showing any signs of taking control of the bowl of food...

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Once again well said said mr stan Ferrell

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I agree that equating human emotions to animals is not an accurate measure, logic was implied to be for the humans posting on this thread. I absolutely do not agree with your thoughts that a dog fighting back when attached by another dog is merely exhibiting dominance. The idea that all dogs have the wolf pack mentality is just as wrong as ascribing human emotions to animals. Your idea of everything being black or white, right or wrong, does little to substantiate the fact that every dog that fights back is aggressive. Dominance plays a role in the true aggressor, they want to dominate every dog, but a dog fighting back does not mean they want to dominate every dog. There are some men that think they can domin. ate every male they come across until they meet their match, the same thing with an aggressive dog, they start fights, they want to dominate , not so with most dogs. You were asked the question regarding your reaction to a man hitting on you, would you fight back to protect yourself or would you fight back to be dominant? Logic! I am done with this subject matter, you think what you like and I will think as I like, we both may be wrong, who knows? Dave

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
I agree that equating human emotions to animals is not an accurate measure, logic was implied to be for the humans posting on this thread. I absolutely do not agree with your thoughts that a dog fighting back when attached by another dog is merely exhibiting dominance. The idea that all dogs have the wolf pack mentality is just as wrong as ascribing human emotions to animals. Your idea of everything being black or white, right or wrong, does little to substantiate the fact that every dog that fights back is aggressive. Dominance plays a role in the true aggressor, they want to dominate every dog, but a dog fighting back does not mean they want to dominate every dog. There are some men that think they can domin. ate every male they come across until they meet their match, the same thing with an aggressive dog, they start fights, they want to dominate , not so with most dogs. You were asked the question regarding your reaction to a man hitting on you, would you fight back to protect yourself or would you fight back to be dominant? Logic! I am done with this subject matter, you think what you like and I will think as I like, we both may be wrong, who knows? Dave

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Hmmmmmm, you must be aggressive, pound knots in his head. Lol. THATS exactly what most men would do. I do not own or never would own and hunt a mean dog just to be clear on that subject. How do you wish to describe animals? It's hard for man to describe any animal without using human language and human emotions, even though you may try, you still use your human thoughts to process how you THINK animals behave and react. I do not think you are going to change your thought process, nor am I, so we are just beating a dead horse. You think you are right, I think I am right, neither of us own or hunt mean dogs, so why do either of us care about mean dogs. Opinions are just like backsides, we ALL have one. Lol. Dave

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I have a little Plott female that is the most gentle loving obedient eager to please hound I've ever owned. That said...I had her get into a porcupine 2 years ago, when it came time for me to pull them out she would have like to eat me alive! It wasn't because she was aggressive or dominant. It was because she was in pain and her natural instincts to try and protect herself from more pain. I'm not a competition hunter and maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges but I just wanted to share that thought.

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That's exactly what she was doing! Animals feel pain and that's a proven fact, for anyone to suggest different is absurd. Dave

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Hmmmmmm, you must be aggressive, pound knots in his head. Lol. THATS exactly what most men would do. I do not own or never would own and hunt a mean dog just to be clear on that subject. How do you wish to describe animals? It's hard for man to describe any animal without using human language and human emotions, even though you may try, you still use your human thoughts to process how you THINK animals behave and react. I do not think you are going to change your thought process, nor am I, so we are just beating a dead horse. You think you are right, I think I am right, neither of us own or hunt mean dogs, so why do either of us care about mean dogs. Opinions are just like backsides, we ALL have one. Lol. Dave

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You got that right. Dave

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Every animal has the flite or fight reaction. Pats dog can not get away, your dog could back up two babysteps and the fight would be over. get it? Nah, you don't.

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If you get in more than a couple of fights in a dogs life you are probably the problem.

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We get it, you dont, every situation is different, while you tend to over simplify. If a dog is jumped on out of nowhere, he fights back or gets chewed up, he can not back up 2 steps and avoid the fight. I do not condone fighting, but a dog that fights back when given no choice definitely is not mean or aggressive as you continue to imply. Think what you like, but do not pizz on my leg and tell me it's raining and expect me to agree. Most folks don't give a rat's bottom what you or I have to say about mean dogs, folks with a really mean dog know what they have. Dave

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quote:

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Originally posted by Melblank
If you get in more than a couple of fights in a dogs life you are probably the problem.

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
We get it, you dont, every situation is different, while you tend to over simplify. If a dog is jumped on out of nowhere, he fights back or gets chewed up, he can not back up 2 steps and avoid the fight. I do not condone fighting, but a dog that fights back when given no choice definitely is not mean or aggressive as you continue to imply. Think what you like, but do not pizz on my leg and tell me it's raining and expect me to agree. Most folks don't give a rat's bottom what you or I have to say about mean dogs, folks with a really mean dog know what they have. Dave

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Dang this is getting good!

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