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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9229

Mr yadkinriver

After a long thinking process ( about 2 minutes ) I decided itís time to ask some hard questions. In the dogs you have breed , raised , and trained what qualitys did you look for to separate the chafe from the corn so to speak?



This is only for people that take their dogs from first breath of air to the tree.



Tar

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Old Post 08-04-2019 01:03 PM
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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1188

Tar

You've asked a loaded question that might take awhile to answer. When I moved to Yadkin County in 74 I was hunting a pair of english out of Oneys Drum that were decent coondogs. Now Kyle Chase had Yadkin River Tom and he and Toehead Smith were hunting together and breeding Tom on a fairly regular basis.What I was seeing out of Tom's offspring was amazing. When normal mating were made you were lucky to get a couple good dgs, Tom was throwing whole litters of good dogs. I couldn't find a direct son or daughter to Tom that could be bought. A daughter to Tom was bred to agrand son of Gann's Finisher That produced a whole litter of outstanding dogs. One won the Va. State at a year old and I was able to get a female sister that I bred to Gr. Nt. Yadkin River Luke and got a whole litter of way better than average pups. Now another friend had a male brother to my female that he bred several times to a daughter of Flag over a daughter of Tom that resulted in outstanding litters. Thats where my old Dixie female came from.With that said and done on my start of the breeding let me say that I had an advantage by knowing the dogs and knowing the paperwork was right sure helped.
As far as looking for certain qualities in my pups I seldom had a chance to see them at an early age since most were booked before the mating actually took place. I live out in the country and at the time my road was gravel and I could let my pups run loose. All my pups got gamey between 3 and 5 months old so thats when I started them on coon. I didn't look for anything special in a young pup. Sometimes I picked one early and sometimes I kept the last one not picked with the same results.
So doing your homework and being fortunate enough to have the right dogs available where you can observe and know is the big advantage. I got the reputation as a top puppy man but actually all I had to do was expose them. At one time I had Three generations of Grands behind old Dixie that I could show.
Won a lot of hunts with these dogs but never won the big one. It wasn't because I didn't try. Even had one in the world show but she was a better coondog than showdog.
So it's a long road between puppy and coondog but with proper breeding and enviroment and being able to reconize when and how much or how little it can be done on a regular basis. And btw when my pups did a real good job whether a cold or hot track they got rewarded with fur in their mouth and they seemed to respond to that.
Old Dixie went off the Historical Reproducers with a 31.62 reproducing record and I know of two that died lacking 15 points of titling out.

Last edited by yadkinriver on 08-05-2019 at 02:15 AM

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9229

Mr Lambert would you care to share the history of your red dogs with us ?



Or anybody else that has raised their own dogs.



Tar

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Old Post 08-04-2019 07:58 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17271

I am trying to figure out what chafe is and what it has to do with corn.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9229

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I am trying to figure out what chafe is and what it has to do with corn.




You ever been around a combine ? Corn goes in the hopper truck the trash goes out on the ground and is plowed back under.


Tar

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Old Post 08-04-2019 08:13 PM
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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1188

Think most of the chafe is found on wheat.lol.
I feel that anyone that has never raised and trained their own pup has missed out on the true enjoyment of coonhunting. You just have to be smarter than the dog.
Btw Tar I forgot about Y. R. Hope, the three legged female that won quiet a bit in PKC and had more 2nd places in UKC than I kept up with.
C'mon Richard you've messed with pups. Lets hear it!

Last edited by yadkinriver on 08-04-2019 at 08:31 PM

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Old Post 08-04-2019 08:24 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17271

I always looked for speed, accuracy, brains, nose, hunt....a lot of different traits. I always looked for pups with the best combination. I was always a competition hunter back then. I looked for a pup that I could win with. I tried to breed to get the best balance of traits.
But times have changed. Now everyone wants more drive and independence. In the past it was speed and tree.

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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1652

I don't have near the experience some of you fellows have but I like to have pups that are easy to train with a good balance of traits and a pleasant easy going personality anything less is chafe.

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Old Post 08-04-2019 11:40 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9229

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I always looked for speed, accuracy, brains, nose, hunt....a lot of different traits. I always looked for pups with the best combination. I was always a competition hunter back then. I looked for a pup that I could win with. I tried to breed to get the best balance of traits.
But times have changed. Now everyone wants more drive and independence. In the past it was speed and tree.




You can still win with the old style by getting what they ran past.


Tar

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Old Post 08-04-2019 11:40 PM
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DL NH
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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 177

You guys who have raised several litters, do you find that there are certain things you see in your pups before they're started that provide indicators that they have a good chance of being special that helps you choose what you want to keep?

I have heard and read where some who have raised several litters say they simply wait until all but one are sold and they keep that one! Nothing to scientific 'bout that method I guess!😆

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Old Post 08-04-2019 11:41 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 724

Yadkinriver...early on you found a great line of dogs and you were fortunate enough to see it seize the opportunity...

I once had a yard full of above average hog dogs because of above average bloodlines...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17271

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
You guys who have raised several litters, do you find that there are certain things you see in your pups before they're started that provide indicators that they have a good chance of being special that helps you choose what you want to keep?



I wish.... No one ever said that anything about breeding coonhounds was scientific.

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Old Post 08-05-2019 12:07 AM
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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1188

DL NH

Unless I picked one by it's marking it was just a gamble on picking but I think I've seen it all. One man had to look at the mole under the pups chin. If the hair pointed to the front he said it would be a tree dog. If it pointed straight back it was just a trackdog and if it pointed straight down it would be balanced. Another man had to look in their mouth and find one with a black roof. He said that would always be a treedog and another man looked for a pup with a tree knot on his head. Another old man always brought his granddaughter and told her to pick one. Seems he had as good luck as the others. Until a pup gets a little age they usually don't show much difference.

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Old Post 08-05-2019 12:51 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17271

A guy came to my house to pick a pup and stayed 3 hrs playing with 6 pups but couldn't make up his mind so he left. 3 days later he came back and after 2 hrs he finally just said eeny meeny miny moe and grabbed one. It turned out to be a nice dog but then so did the whole litter. When you have well balanced litters a whole lot depends on what you do with the pup more than which pup you pick.

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Old Post 08-05-2019 01:07 AM
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droopy_dog2004
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 1313

yadkinriver

What is the story on Grch Grnitech Yadkin River Rock? He was off of Grnitech Ch Broyhill's Stalking Moon x Pilot View Polly

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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1188

Dillon

Yadkin River Rock was a counterfeit Yadkin River dog. His sire was off Ganns Finisher and his dam was directly off Banjo 11. When crossed on Y.R. Tom daughters it produced some of the fastest trackdogs to come down the pike. He was a flagtailed dog that put a little extra hair on his pups but they made coondogs. Toehead Smith was responsible for naming him Yadkin River and maybe because he was known for hunting Yadkin River dogs he didn't want anyone to know he was stepping out. I hunted with him and he was a coon dog.

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Old Post 08-05-2019 02:07 AM
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droopy_dog2004
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2006
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 1313

Re: Dillon

Very interesting! Dixieís grandsire on her top side was Rock correct? Iíve also got some buddies up in Virginia that have some coon/bear dogs that have a few shots of Yadkin River Rock crossed over a daughter of a hound called Grnitech Shag Bark Mr T

quote:
Originally posted by yadkinriver
Yadkin River Rock was a counterfeit Yadkin River dog. His sire was off Ganns Finisher and his dam was directly off Banjo 11. When crossed on Y.R. Tom daughters it produced some of the fastest trackdogs to come down the pike. He was a flagtailed dog that put a little extra hair on his pups but they made coondogs. Toehead Smith was responsible for naming him Yadkin River and maybe because he was known for hunting Yadkin River dogs he didn't want anyone to know he was stepping out. I hunted with him and he was a coon dog.

__________________
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AT&T Cell Number
--Call Or Text--
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----Home Of----
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Old Post 08-05-2019 02:23 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 724

Several reasons I like raising my own pups...I can watch how they play, roam around in the yard...I feed them a raw wild hog head at 5 weeks and again the following week and maybe one more time... I want them to really like it so I use their hunger to my advantage...puppies are like kids who only get a taste of vanilla ice cream now and then... I test them for winding and finding by 8 weeks...and baying style by 4 months old...by 8 or ten weeks old they are conditioned to gun fire...also checking to see which ones naturally make a round in the woods on first time out...

So I kill two birds with one stone...the pups are being conditioned to enhance their genetic potential and I can see which ones do it naturally (born knowing)...l do this with every litter...it works for me...do I always identify the best pups? I really cannot say for sure...but I give it my best shot...

Going out to buy a pup from someone...usually a crapshoot...every now and then we might see a special pup and we get lucky...I can still see some special pups in my minds eye from years gone by...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 08-05-2019 at 11:26 AM

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DL NH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 177

If you want to make money on pups go buy a standard poodle and either a Lab or Golden retriever and cross them. They're selling them around hear for $1200 to $1600 a pc. @ 8 wks. old.

Got a friend who raised a litter of pups from his grade labs last year. Had 10 and raised them all. Had deposits on the whole litter by the time they were 6 weeks old. They all sold for $500 a pc. It's ridiculous!

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Old Post 08-05-2019 03:52 AM
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yadkinriver
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1188

To quote Richard "when you have well balanced litters a whole lot depends on what you do with the pup more than which pup you pick" this sentence carries more weight than a lot of people realize. AQnyone that lets a pup stand in a pen until it's old enough to hunt has missed a span in that dogs life that is the easiest to teach to please and mold into a dog you can enjoy.
During my heyday there was usually a gang or two of pups running around. From the time they were coming out of the doghouse I opened the door to the puppy pen. When I loaded a dog to go hunting I had to lock them back up because they would follow to the truck and want to go. When I quit and put my dog back in the kennel I turned the pups back out and they would run to the truck. I would sit them on the tailgate with the doors open on the dogbox and the pups would be in and out of the box and all in the back of the truc checking out all the smells. Before they got big enough to jump out I would sit them in the back of my truck in the bed and ride them up to my orchard. When I got there I would drop the tailgate and turn them out. That stuck with them and later I could take them hunting without a dogbox if I wanted. My beagles will do that now. A lot of lessons can be taught early like never growl at the feed pan and so forth. A stern word works better than a heavy hand with a pup. When a pup learns you are a nicer person when you're happy than when you disapprove they will try to please you.

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Old Post 08-05-2019 01:40 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17271

It is a whole lot easier to train a 15 lb puppy than a 50 lb one. But a lot of people don't realize that they are "training" pups every time they come in contact with them. Even not coming in contact with them is sometimes a form of training.
Puppies are just like little kids. It is amazing what they pick up on, both good and bad, that you don't even realize. Especially their language.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9229

You can get them to do way more with a cheap hot dog than you can with a garmin.



Tar

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Old Post 08-06-2019 12:20 PM
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groworg1
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1670

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
You can get them to do way more with a cheap hot dog than you can with a garmin.



Tar

and you can accomplish more with "the tone of your voice " then any e collar !

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4118

.

Enjoy reading this and there is some good information here. All to often we get to talking genetics and how to breed that super pup. But I think what is really important, gets lost in the conversation. The Sire and the Dam

I have a litter of pups here now that are about 10 weeks of age. I have sat on my back porch about every morning watching them play, interact and learn about life. The Sire and Dam both were purchased by me as pups and I raised and trained them. I know people on here like HOBO, Old Timer, yadkinriver. Ruben. DL NH, Richard, Redneck Mafia and a host of others. Have pups from Parents they raised and trained. I think for the most part they can sit and watch the pups and take enjoyment in seeing pups that don't know anything have characteristics of their parents. Then grow to be like them. I know we talk about family genetics but don't over look the importance of the parents and if your breeding a dog that is lacking ability just because you have it. Find a better one to breed. The pups will favor their ancestors but if the parents have holes. Some of the pups will have the same holes. If it is a big hole your going in the wrong direction.



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DL NH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 177

No true lover of hunting hounds could look at those pics. without a grin forming on their face. Stuff like this is why I say if you can only enjoy your hounds when you're hunting them your missing a TON more joy that can be had. Thanks for posting the pics. Truly they speak louder than words!

And you're dead on with your comments Bruce!

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