Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1904

No matter where you go or with who, you just know that that dog will probably strike first and tree first and have the meat and does it consistently...

How would this dog hunt?

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Iowa
Posts: 589

Fast.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2347

I have a dog who is a month from being 10. He has won a little, and nearly every cast he has been in, he is struck and treed first out of the truck. I would venture to guess he has been in 50-60 casts, and in those casts he has had first and first out of the truck with a coon in 90% of them at least.

In those drops, I would also venture to guess he averages 12-13 MPH, and that is a conservative estimate.

What I am getting at here, is speed is the key. You cant be first unless you are the fastest.

I will also say that in nearly half of those casts he has fell off on the re-cut and lost in so many different ways I can't count them, but if there were ever a drag race hunt he would have been a world champion.

Not many dogs keep up that pace off of a re-cut. They are super rare, and they have won a bunch.

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Posts: 31

I have had a first and first type he was struck as soon as the snap clicked and would be right there all night in calling contest he made grnitech in 9 casts lost at an rqe once had around 2500 in Pkc was in the top 5 of the ga state race when he was ran over and killed at 3 yrs old now I have had another that wasn’t guaranteed first strike but he was as Jeremy said one of the ones that could keep up the hustle off the recut he was a nite ch with 6500 won at 3 years old and was mostly just coon hunted after that but when we went to town he won the last hunt he was in at 9 years old scored 375. + won his cast

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: muskegon mi
Posts: 135

quote:

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Originally posted by the wise man
I have had a first and first type he was struck as soon as the snap clicked and would be right there all night in calling contest he made grnitech in 9 casts lost at an rqe once had around 2500 in Pkc was in the top 5 of the ga state race when he was ran over and killed at 3 yrs old now I have had another that wasn’t guaranteed first strike but he was as Jeremy said one of the ones that could keep up the hustle off the recut he was a nite ch with 6500 won at 3 years old and was mostly just coon hunted after that but when we went to town he won the last hunt he was in at 9 years old scored 375. + won his cast

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Registered: Jul 2016
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Buddy of mine hunted a dog that won all kinds of money and was gr nt in ukc from the time out of the box till she treed she never shut up . But would have a coon somewhere. I know she was not running a track or chasing dogs she would just open the whole time I could never have pleasure hunted her her. But she sure won . Most first and first are babbling we all know that but id say there are a few that are just extremely talented super fast dogs. I wonder if all the first and first type drew each other who would be on top at the end

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Registered: Feb 2012
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Yes he was a babbler but no he wasn’t a backpacker he was old style competition hound he might be with the dogs but would be looking to drive that track in front of them he would split and hold and have his coon as well I have drew the babbling backpacker type you are thinking about but that wasn’t what he was I won’t own that type may hunt it if paid too but won’t own one

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Registered: Jan 2016
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quote:

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Originally posted by treedog2345
Buddy of mine hunted a dog that won all kinds of money and was gr nt in ukc from the time out of the box till she treed she never shut up . But would have a coon somewhere. I know she was not running a track or chasing dogs she would just open the whole time I could never have pleasure hunted her her. But she sure won . Most first and first are babbling we all know that but id say there are a few that are just extremely talented super fast dogs. I wonder if all the first and first type drew each other who would be on top at the end

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Dan

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Registered: Jun 2007
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Posts: 1176

Thats all I hunt, it has to be the standard where I live. There are enough get deep and alone dogs here that strike points is what sets them apart. But they are two different hunting styles, get deep fast, ambush dog. And tree every coon in the woods type. The key is they both open quick when they hit the track(and not babble off the chain). But then just open very little here and there before they tree. They both drive there tracks fast.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1904

quote:

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Originally posted by River Birch Run
Thats all I hunt, it has to be the standard where I live. There are enough get deep and alone dogs here that strike points is what sets them apart. But they are two different hunting styles, get deep fast, ambush dog. And tree every coon in the woods type. The key is they both open quick when they hit the track(and not babble off the chain). But then just open very little here and there before they tree. They both drive there tracks fast.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 04-07-2021 at 05:37 PM

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
For me the get deep quick dog is a cull...
The tree every coon in the woods quickly type is what I would keep and breed for...

My question to you...what is your opinion on nose power on the two types your talking about? Both types of dogs have evolved from many years of selection based on hunting competition...while there can be dogs that win through top handling, over time the average would go to a certain type of nose...

My thoughts are that these type of dogs cannot be too cold nosed nor too hot nosed...for these dogs to be consistent winners over time it is my opinion the has to be somewhere in the middle...

It is also my opinion that when we discuss hot nose and cold nose that it is not only the nose that should be discussed...I believe the brain is a major player on what the nose does...

How can we measure what type of dog has evolved from the last twenty years until now?
I think we would have to find the average type of handler that competition hunted back then and now...and then do the same with the type of competition dogs back then and now...
We could measure hunting style, nose, and type of mentality a dog must have to be a consistent winner...

The first thing to understand is how the nose and brain work together in collecting accurate data...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1904

Thank you...I appreciate this board and the dog people that comment on here as well...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jan 2016
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I’d prefer to keep things simple, but not sure I could keep it as simple as I’d prefer were I to go looking for another coon dog.

Is there an such thing these days as a coon dog that takes it’s tracks as they come? They’ve always been hard to find but not many want a dog that will grub out a cold track into a run for its life race. A good cold trailing track dog won’t stand on its head and blow a hole in the ground either!

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Dan

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I think for the most part coondogs are born with close to the same nose power. It's all about whats between the ears, on how they use that nose.

So my tree every coon in the woods in a hurry dog, was the sire to my get deep and lonely dog. I also owned the dam and she was like the sire but a little trashy (on small game) young and had a ton of gritt. I had kept two out of the litter. The other one I kept was a take the tracks as they come and finish it type. Which drove me insane because if he ran across an old track first on a good night he was going to finish it even if it took 15 min. In my neck of the woods you can tree 3 in 15 min.

The deep and lonely dog, was smart and full of drive, with a ton of speed. He knew where to go to get treed fast i.e. off water or in the nut trees, or edge of corn fields. In the winter when tracks were few and far between, he would and could work old cold tracks just as good as his sire and litter mate.

In the comp hunts over the yrs I have seen many dogs that looked good early, and kept the hunt close. But when the frost set in they were done. I have been lucky enough to have dogs that really hunt frost great. I'm not sure why so many dogs are unable to work tracks in the frost.

I hunt black and tans, and what I have seen over 20 yrs is they went from tracking dogs to tree dogs. Not in a good way either. They have bred these dogs to pack and pile on a tree and let the handler win the cast for them. They are just cover dogs. I have done my best to breed a balance of track and tree in each cross. ( I have a litter about every 5 yrs). With that it comes down to the dogs thought process and the amount of drive they have within. This is a big part of rather its a get deep and alone dog, or take tracks as they come dog. How fast they finish tracks comes down too time in the woods, and how fast they learn. Most dogs just don't get the alone time they need to learn there craft. In my opinon.

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