Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1108

I ask this on another thread but no one really answered. I am just a coon hunter. Not a breeder. In 60 years I have raised one litter of coon hounds and that was 50 years ago. So I want to ask you guys that have been breeding your own dogs for a while: Has anyone reached a point where you could tell before the pups were born what kind of mouth, what hunt style, tree style etc. the pups would be. Have you reached a point where you could with confidence say that 70% of the pups would be good, better than average, coondogs? At least to me when I see so many pups and so few real coon dogs that it must be a very challenging task.

__________________
Tom Wood

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

On 6th generation and nope !


Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 416

My limited experience in raising pups is in a good litter there is usually 1 to 3 pups born with more natural talent and or brains than the other pups and this is in a good cross for one reason or another across the board less than 10 percent really make better than average I'm talking every pup whelped in the USA combined

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

quote:

---

Originally posted by Preacher Tom
I ask this on another thread but no one really answered. I am just a coon hunter. Not a breeder. In 60 years I have raised one litter of coon hounds and that was 50 years ago. So I want to ask you guys that have been breeding your own dogs for a while: Has anyone reached a point where you could tell before the pups were born what kind of mouth, what hunt style, tree style etc. the pups would be. Have you reached a point where you could with confidence say that 70% of the pups would be good, better than average, coondogs? At least to me when I see so many pups and so few real coon dogs that it must be a very challenging task.

---

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Yeah, I just wish that I could predict what my dog will do tomorrow night.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1108

Richard and Donald you may have just gotten to the point that was really on my mind. Nothing about coon dogs seems to be very predictable. And it doesn't seem like line breeding, breeding world champ to world champ or whatever changes that much. Certainly there are dogs that reproduce much better than average but it seems very difficult for anyone to take that even as far as the third generation. And maybe that's a good thing cause I'm not sure I would like this as much if really good dogs were a dime a dozen.

__________________
Tom Wood

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

There's things that are more predictable than others when you know the breeding vs not. For instance lipper =more drive , rat more tree, nailor louder mouth, trackman nice locate.
This is an area I feel the walkers have an advantage over all the off breeds. Because with the off breeds the lack of #'s make it harder to figure out what line of breeding throws what traits your looking for when breeding.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

When raised, started, trained and hunted a bunch out of a certain line you notice certain qualities that seem to show up over and over again. The distinct sound in mouth and way they come on a tree when they locate is the number one that seems to be carrying heavy here. There are other aspects like hunting style, natural indifference and though many are colored differently and and may have size differences muscle tone, chest depth, just a look that I notice as a characteristic.
I've listened to videos of many dogs unknown to me and know in seconds it is something out of our stuff.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 1130

quote:

---

Originally posted by pamjohnson
There's things that are more predictable than others when you know the breeding vs not. For instance lipper =more drive , rat more tree, nailor louder mouth, trackman nice locate.
This is an area I feel the walkers have an advantage over all the off breeds. Because with the off breeds the lack of #'s make it harder to figure out what line of breeding throws what traits your looking for when breeding.

---

__________________
John 3:16
You'd better believe it!

Last edited by CX3 on 01-17-2020 at 09:16 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1108

quote:

---

Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
When raised, started, trained and hunted a bunch out of a certain line you notice certain qualities that seem to show up over and over again. The distinct sound in mouth and way they come on a tree when they locate is the number one that seems to be carrying heavy here. There are other aspects like hunting style, natural indifference and though many are colored differently and and may have size differences muscle tone, chest depth, just a look that I notice as a characteristic.
I've listened to videos of many dogs unknown to me and know in seconds it is something out of our stuff.

---

__________________
Tom Wood

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

When I am ready , I just may have to make one of those Mafia Beagle crosses with these Crossbred Depression era sportsmen hounds I got. LOL and Tom is right there is no doubt they are gooduns! Tom what you need to do is DNA Preacher and Banjo to find out if they are related.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

By 9 or 10 months I can predict if the pup stays or goes...and usually younger...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

Most dogs reproduce traits better than we'd like if they are the traits we don't want.
My Penney dog produces highly intelligent dogs with a very strong desire to please their owners. An unusual trait is that when her pups are laying in a truck dog box they will have their legs sticking through the bars of the door with their legs crossed at the ankles outside the box. Her pups have similar triple chop locates and treeing styles. She is the best coon treeing reproducer that I've ever owned, but they are all different as well.

There are some bloodlines that have traits that I have ZERO tolerance for and I've seen these consistently reproduced for 48 years. Finding one of these in the pedigree of a dog that your thinking of using in my breeding program is comparable finding out that your has AIDS!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged