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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
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Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
{b]Always seemed opposite to me. But I've never tried correcting one for slick treeing. And never will.

It is more, not encouraging them to tree wrong. To many are guilty of this. [/B]


Bruce, you hit the nail on the head right there, it's a matter of NOT encouraging bad behavior, slick treeing or any other undesirable behavior. DO NOT be so happy that the dog trees, be happy only if the dog trees right, etc. Dogs can be trained to repeat certain behaviors by our reactions right or wrong. We have to be careful in how we reward our dogs for doing certain things or it can become a habit good or bad. I only reward a dog with praise or positive action only when they are right in doing something, be it treeing or another task. Dave

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Vic Stoll
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Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1691

Define Accuracy

I think a huge part of it is how people define accuracy, which I have come to find varies from person to person.

Myself, it is either coon seen, or coon not seen. Dens count as coon not seen. Using this method, if you're leading one that can carry a 2 out of 3 average over the course of one year, you've got one that's well above average in my opinion. I can't say I know of too many people that keep track for a full year.

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houndsound
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
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Do other breeds other than Walkers struggle with this accuracy? I know Walkers sort of run with their heads up off the ground more so than blacks, or blues.... wondering if that is a factor?

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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1555

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I think it's 100% genetic. I'm hunting 2 females now. Full sisters, One is almost 5 , the other is 18 months. Both treed a coon first time in the woods and have been treeing them regularly ever since. In 4 years the older has treed on three trees I could have minused. Three persimmon
trees. I'm not bragging on these dogs. I had nothing to do with this. They were both given to me at 6 weeks old. The young one is just as accurate as the older one. They were born this way. They both have faults but slick treeing isn't one of them. And don't think they pass up coons when they're not sure.





But how many trees have these dogs made? And how many dens do they tree?

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Old Post 01-14-2021 10:10 PM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2768

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
But how many trees have these dogs made? And how many dens do they tree?
They tree a good many coons. Two last night and two Tuesday night. I'm 77 years old and don't hunt as hard or as late as I did years ago, but I see a coon or two every time I go. They also both tree lay-ups. Never treed a cold lay-up and found a den. When I see a den it's at the end of a running track. I always say they both know when a coon is in a tree.

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Old Post 01-14-2021 10:53 PM
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shadinc
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And both of these females have only had about 5 coons shot out in the last year.

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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1942

I know a fellow that sees the coon in every tree within seconds of shine time, many have hunted with him and can't see the coon. Anyone that tells me a dog is 90% accurate I just let it go in 1 ear and out the other. 90% is 9 out of 10 seen no dens no other excuses. Nope it just ain't going to happen unless you only hunt for a lucky stretch.

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Old Post 01-14-2021 11:46 PM
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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1012

I have a dog that struck 26 tracks in a row that ended with a coon seen in 26 trees. But the streak ended with three den trees in one night. Yes he's pretty accurate but he just had a lucky streak. Don't think I will ever see that again in my life. I was hunting him by himself so nothing was pushing him to get treed which I believe makes a lot of difference to some dogs.

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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2768

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I know a fellow that sees the coon in every tree within seconds of shine time, many have hunted with him and can't see the coon. Anyone that tells me a dog is 90% accurate I just let it go in 1 ear and out the other. 90% is 9 out of 10 seen no dens no other excuses. Nope it just ain't going to happen unless you only hunt for a lucky stretch.
I don't know why people keep talking about percentages. We have leaves on about 1/3 of our tree year round. The percentage of coons you see and a dogs accuracy are two different things. If a dog slick trees, he will tell on himself every now and then by treeing on a sapling. Why are so many folks concerned with dens? Coons live in hollow trees. You can't count them as coons seen but you can't hold it against your dog. Monday night my dogs ran a coon 400 yards like they were looking at him. Den tree. Is that one they missed? If I owned Preacher Tom's dog I sure wouldn't be concerned about his accuracy over the 3 dens.

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Old Post 01-15-2021 12:30 AM
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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1942

Donald
Your answer is location. If you live where I do things would be different. For 6 months out of the year you can see the tree. No leaves. A den tree here and there is fine after a nice trail. Some dogs like squirrel and boy do they. So dens and leaves are excuses.

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Old Post 01-15-2021 12:55 AM
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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1012

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I don't know why people keep talking about percentages. We have leaves on about 1/3 of our tree year round. The percentage of coons you see and a dogs accuracy are two different things. If a dog slick trees, he will tell on himself every now and then by treeing on a sapling. Why are so many folks concerned with dens? Coons live in hollow trees. You can't count them as coons seen but you can't hold it against your dog. Monday night my dogs ran a coon 400 yards like they were looking at him. Den tree. Is that one they missed? If I owned Preacher Tom's dog I sure wouldn't be concerned about his accuracy over the 3 dens.


Donald I assure you he has just plain missed since that time especially when he began to have a thyroid problem. He's pretty much back to a real nice coon dog but he doesn't walk on water. I like him as good as any I have ever had.

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2ol2hunt
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Registered: Nov 2011
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Posts: 840

Mr.Tom how long did it take to get your dog back right?

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Old Post 01-15-2021 01:01 AM
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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1012

quote:
Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
Mr.Tom how long did it take to get your dog back right?


It took a long time and his count would not stay consistent till someone, I think it was Larry Hall (shows my mind isn't much anymore) told me about Nascent Iodine. Started giving him about a third of a dropper of this every day and it was like night and day. He got back like he's supposed to be. I give him 1 MG of the Thyroid med each morning. I think the iodine is the key.

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Old Post 01-15-2021 01:39 AM
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2ol2hunt
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Thank you sir

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Old Post 01-15-2021 01:55 AM
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rooster731
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Bethel springs TN
Posts: 86

I try to keep an accurate record of my hunt and what my dog does. I count trees made and coons seen. Dens count against him so i know his average is slightly better than the numbers show but he doesnt make alot of dens. I dont get to hunt as much as i would like with a young family to keep up with. Since season open in july 1st he has been in the woods 46 times, made 112 trees and seen 77 coon alone. Thru december 31st that averages just over 7 nights per month, 18 trees per month, 13 coon per month. That figures out to around 69% accurate from the hottest part of summer to feed tracks when acorns are falling and into early winter. He could be better no doubt but with my limited time to hunt he will have to do for now

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Old Post 01-15-2021 02:41 AM
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KEVIN MOSES
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: ATHENS,TN.
Posts: 270

Funny story about accuracy

Ole buddy I have known since a kid is a pleasure hunter. Any time you see him and ask him how he done hunting the night before, he always says he treed 3 coon. After done hunting one night, I went thru McDonald's to grab a bite to eat. My ole buddy pulled up next to me as he had been hunting also and had his little nephew with him. I ask him how he done and he said he treed 3. His nephew spoke up and said "yeah and we would have shot them out if we could have found them". Of course he was ready to go real quick after that

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Old Post 01-15-2021 02:43 AM
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Dave Richards
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Re: Funny story about accuracy

quote:
Originally posted by KEVIN MOSES
Ole buddy I have known since a kid is a pleasure hunter. Any time you see him and ask him how he done hunting the night before, he always says he treed 3 coon. After done hunting one night, I went thru McDonald's to grab a bite to eat. My ole buddy pulled up next to me as he had been hunting also and had his little nephew with him. I ask him how he done and he said he treed 3. His nephew spoke up and said "yeah and we would have shot them out if we could have found them". Of course he was ready to go real quick after that


Accuracy is only as accurate as the man reporting it is, I only count the coons I see, trees mean nothing if I do not see a coon. Any coonhunter is only fooling himself if he counts every tree a dog makes as a coon if he does not see a coon in that tree. Seems like HONEST coonhunters are as scarce as HONEST coon dogs. Dave

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high ridge
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3115

I agree with Dave. If I donít see a coon I donít count a coon.
Coons live in dens. I have pushed several hollow trees over and looked in many holes where I climbed up to have my feelings hurt

Keep standing around them trees blowing squallers pulling vines petting on old Joe hoping a coon going to fall out of the sky and one has to continue to come up with , well he could be here or he could have crossed out

Go into that tree leash dog and shine. Donít tell them how good they are and stand and brag to your buddy what tree dog it is. Do that after you find a coon. One can tell pretty quickly if it a good coon tree or not. You will miss seeing some in 3-4 minutes but most coons are found pretty quickly when they there.

An accurate dog will show you just how fast you can find coons in a tree

I can live with junk running I can deal with ugly I can deal with poor mouth I can deal with no handle

THEY MUST BE ACCURATE

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Old Post 01-15-2021 05:42 AM
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Rip
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4884

I personally treat them like major league baseball.

Dens are a walk. They don't count for or against a dog.

Coons that are seen in trees I can shine.

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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1413

quote:
Originally posted by high ridge


Keep standing around them trees blowing squallers pulling vines petting on old Joe hoping a coon going to fall out of the sky and one has to continue to come up with , well he could be here or he could have crossed out





High Ridge...I see exactly what you are saying...blowing squaller, pulling on vines and petting ole Joe Boy to tree and maybe no coon in the tree...well that is training and encouraging Joe Boy to tree more slick trees in the future...

and if there is a coon in a tree but cannot be seen because of excessive foliage, or den tree that the coon cannot be seen...you lease the dog up and walk away...the dog is receiving mixed signals because he knows there is a coon in the tree...but this cannot be helped bedcause we cannot verify so we do what is the least of two possibilities which is leash the dog and recast without saying a word...

if the coon scent had color and there was a coon in the tree we would see the scent rolling down to the ground...and it seems the dog could be treeing a little harder or differently because of the stronger coon scent...so if we could read the dogs signals a little better...we could possibly encourage the dog at the right times and discourage at the wrong times...not saying it's probable but what if...just like a liar can lie and we will not know it because we cannot read the person but hook him up to a lie detector and we can see the truth...

if a slick tree there would be coon scent but there would be less rolling down to the ground...and the dog might not be as excited when treeing...

If we know for sure it is a slick tree then that would be the time to discourage the dog...

just casting ideas...

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high ridge
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3115

Yes there are trees we may send mixed signals too
But, that dog catches on pretty quick. He knows you spending more time and petting him more around them coon trees.
I never stroke a dogs side at a tree or say a word till I find a coon. Then I praise a bit.
It donít bother me to grab one up in the middle of the summer and get into their rear end on the biggest leafiest tree you can imagine. Yeah, have I knocked them off some coons before yes has it been a lot heck no.
A person letís them get by with it all summer making excuses on leaves then when fall hits and the leaves drop we got look for more excuses

I realize I am different than most. My dogs get best of feed, medical, a very comfortable kennel, played with in the lot etc.
But, when I pop a snap that dog is my tool not my buddy until it reaches an old age.
Would you keep trying to work with a broken wrench or throw away and buy a new?
I look at it same way with a dog, if you canít perform I donít need a pet and if the tool canít be mended I toss it like them.

Emotions versus reality is the seperation in life. Not only dogs but anything
I wanted to play basketball but I 5Ē5. Emotionally I thought I was as good as anyone realistically I wasnít and thatís hard to accept sometimes.

Quit worrying you gonna make a dog nervous around a tree and he leave. If he leaves a slick you are making progress. But, keep it up. Most people half break dogs from slicks and possums and thatís why they leave as you get close. Carry the mission out

I not advocating abusing a dog. Do whatever you want to encourage good behavior and discourage bad

BUT HERE WERE THE WORK STARTS

It must be done over and over and over. It must be done so much that you question your sanity for being in the woods that much. Itís missed ballgames of the kids, itís an upset wife because you missed another family function, itís tired church services, itís wore out boots, itís tired mornings headed to work, itís a dwindled bank account, a truck thatís falling apart, and miles and nights away from the ones you say you love.

The work part above is what separates the top ability hounds from just the dog that can tree a coon.

AND, in realistic thoughts none of the above mentioned things is worth it in the big picture of this world but the addiction is real for many and that addiction will cause that type of hound you dream about to become reality.

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Coal295
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Registered: Sep 2017
Location:
Posts: 157

Pet em up

High Ridge is onto one of the biggest faults we probably make as coon hunters. I believe most of us with the leaves off can find a coon pretty quick. Im in rough mountain country full of laurel and vines a lot of the time and if that coon is there its usually seen in the first couple minutes with leaves off. Even in the summer with full leaves a red lens will usually produce eyes after looking a while. It is amazing how much easier they are to see when you are hunting an accurate dog. That young dog is getting less and less accurate the more vines we pull and ruckus and squalls we make. Most of them have too much tree bred in them anyway and that squirrel entices them even more when they see how big of a show we as their handler make out of it. Tie them back, look the tree they are on and not the 15 beside it and go on what you see. If its there give them a belly rub or meat in their mouth for encouragement. If its obviously not there in my opinion you better be giving them some form of correction depending on the dog from a switch to a vocal working over. Its my opinion you aren't gonna ruin a tree dog by demanding accuracy. For some reason I think a lot of people fear they are gonna ruin a dog by correction around a tree when in fact you just might be ruining them without it!

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high ridge
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3115

Re: Pet em up

quote:
Originally posted by Coal295
High Ridge is onto one of the biggest faults we probably make as coon hunters. I believe most of us with the leaves off can find a coon pretty quick. Im in rough mountain country full of laurel and vines a lot of the time and if that coon is there its usually seen in the first couple minutes with leaves off. Even in the summer with full leaves a red lens will usually produce eyes after looking a while. It is amazing how much easier they are to see when you are hunting an accurate dog. That young dog is getting less and less accurate the more vines we pull and ruckus and squalls we make. Most of them have too much tree bred in them anyway and that squirrel entices them even more when they see how big of a show we as their handler make out of it. Tie them back, look the tree they are on and not the 15 beside it and go on what you see. If its there give them a belly rub or meat in their mouth for encouragement. If its obviously not there in my opinion you better be giving them some form of correction depending on the dog from a switch to a vocal working over. Its my opinion you aren't gonna ruin a tree dog by demanding accuracy. For some reason I think a lot of people fear they are gonna ruin a dog by correction around a tree when in fact you just might be ruining them without it!


AGREED

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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1012

I certainly don't have the best dog or the most accurate dog but he knows what "I see it" means and gets even more excited and he knows what "go find that coon" means and will start looking. Yes a few times he has looked came back to the tree and I found the coon but not many.

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high ridge
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3115

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
I certainly don't have the best dog or the most accurate dog but he knows what "I see it" means and gets even more excited and he knows what "go find that coon" means and will start looking. Yes a few times he has looked came back to the tree and I found the coon but not many.


And at the end of the day the only thing that matters is that the man feeding the dog likes him or her.

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