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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 4778

Eric DePue

I like to think it's more than luck, hard work and preparation both handler and dog creates the " luck" needed to WIN. Finding coons in trees where coons are is easy, finding coons in circle trees is hard if they are not there. Ever wonder why some dogs can tree a bunch of coons in big leafy trees and you can find everyone of them and other dogs tree up a bunch of leafy trees and you do not find any of them? Difference between a coon dog and a dog that can tree a coon.Folks used to tell me that I was a lucky man catching coons on nights they treed dens or circle trees, I told them luck was not involved, it was dog power. Dave

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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 707

Dave this is what I mean by luck....Thursday night late round we were guided to a spot that was 200 yrds by 200 yrds block of timber. Not even close to enough ground to hold4 independent hounds. Two dogs get treed fairy quick and have coons. One has 200+ the other has 125+. Mine goes through that block across a field hits a hedgerow goes down it to the road we parked on and crosses it about 400yrds behind the truck. Crosses another field and goes into another block and gets struck for 50. Hereís where the luck comes in.... the other two dogs have gone the other way and have now struck back in for 25. The one who gets treed first right here most likely going to win....mine didnít... so we leave mine working a really good track going in one direction and we head the opposite way 1500 yrds from where we were standing to other two treed. Mine was 550 yrds from us trailing the other way so from their tree heís over 2000 yrds. These dogs are together and have a coon. Now scores are 275+ and 250+. We walk back towards me and I tree him from 1000 yrds. By the way the dog struck for 75 left the county on first drop thus allowing other two to cut when I treed mine. Mine has a coon and is plused 150+. 15 minutes left to hunt if I tree another coon I win on tie breaker...it donít happen... had mine got treed 10 minutes sooner I could have scored and recut him with over an hour left to find another instead of 15 minutes

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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1347

Define LUCK

If you draw a guide that doesn't have good drops is that bad luck? If the dogs are running separate tracks and yours makes it to a den and the other dog gets his on the outside is that bad luck? I could go on all day but I would like for someone to define luck so I would know if I won or lost by being lucky or unlucky or if it's my fault by not doing my homework.

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Old Post 10-25-2020 03:26 PM
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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2246

quote:
Originally posted by JB Cobb
Dave this is what I mean by luck....Thursday night late round we were guided to a spot that was 200 yrds by 200 yrds block of timber. Not even close to enough ground to hold4 independent hounds. Two dogs get treed fairy quick and have coons. One has 200+ the other has 125+. Mine goes through that block across a field hits a hedgerow goes down it to the road we parked on and crosses it about 400yrds behind the truck. Crosses another field and goes into another block and gets struck for 50. Hereís where the luck comes in.... the other two dogs have gone the other way and have now struck back in for 25. The one who gets treed first right here most likely going to win....mine didnít... so we leave mine working a really good track going in one direction and we head the opposite way 1500 yrds from where we were standing to other two treed. Mine was 550 yrds from us trailing the other way so from their tree heís over 2000 yrds. These dogs are together and have a coon. Now scores are 275+ and 250+. We walk back towards me and I tree him from 1000 yrds. By the way the dog struck for 75 left the county on first drop thus allowing other two to cut when I treed mine. Mine has a coon and is plused 150+. 15 minutes left to hunt if I tree another coon I win on tie breaker...it donít happen... had mine got treed 10 minutes sooner I could have scored and recut him with over an hour left to find another instead of 15 minutes


Not to hate on your dog. I'm sure it's a nice hound. But that's not a bad break. The dog had time to tree another coon. It should have, or it should have gotten treed before the other two did.

I just think that most people that say it's a bad break, don't put it on the dog enough.

Folks put too much emphasis on luck in this sport. If luck was that big of a factor, it wouldn't be the same people every week getting their pictures taken.

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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 707

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Not to hate on your dog. I'm sure it's a nice hound. But that's not a bad break. The dog had time to tree another coon. It should have, or it should have gotten treed before the other two did.

I just think that most people that say it's a bad break, don't put it on the dog enough.

Folks put too much emphasis on luck in this sport. If luck was that big of a factor, it wouldn't be the same people every week getting their pictures taken.



He did if he had found a coon closer... he did if he would have hit the track closer to the coons final distention... he did if the track had of been a better track and not a working track...he could have covered the other dogs but he wonít.... had I been lucky there would have been 5 coons in the direction he went instead of only one in 3/4 of a mile... thatís the luck part of it... u canít tree them if they are not there.... Other dogs did exactly what they should have... so did mine... it happens..... could he of done more maybe so... heís a dog and like everyone Iíve owned or hunted with heís not perfect.. Most not all of the guys getting their pic took on a regular do it for a living and are being backed by somebody with deep pockets..

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2246

Here's an example.

Thursday night late round 2016 I think

Shot Through the World
Cold Hard B
The Whole Nine Yards
My one year old.

Hunt is winding down, we are walking to Nine. I come treed with 8 min to go. If I have a coon, I can't really be beat and I'm pretty sure that I do.

I try and find Nines coon, and do. But my squalling called another toward us, and Al walked his minute at it, turned Nine loose, and he treed it in a bush right in front of us with about a minute and a half left.

I had a coon at the end. Most people view that as a bad break, or bad luck, or whatever. Here's my view. My dog treed a coon alone for 50 and 100 out of the truck, and another for 25 and 100 with 8 min to go.

He should have hustled around better and treed a coon in the middle and none of that would have mattered.

Most bad breaks are just a dog that didn't sieze the opportunity given to it.

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T Felderman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1802

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Folks put too much emphasis on luck in this sport. If luck was that big of a factor, it wouldn't be the same people every week getting their pictures taken.


Right here!

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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 707

Iím like you there thatís a dog doing his job... he however was lucky another coon was close enough for him to get it treed within a minute and a half... you probably win that cast 9 and a half out of 10

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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1347

And then sometimes when you are playing the big game it seems the cards are almost stacked against you.

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Old Post 10-25-2020 04:21 PM
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Hoosier Man1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6576

I believe to make a deep run in a national level hunt you first and foremost need the better dog then the other 3 you draw out with. Combine that with one or more lucky breaks you absolutely have to have. In a timed coon hunt when you cut 4 dogs loose there are so many factors that come into play that are way more in depth then just your dog getting under a coon.

In the quarterfinals my dog had his 2nd coon treed before the dog that won treed its first. Mine had number 2 treed with an hour and 30 minutes left. It was very windy and the guide told me to cut straight north off my first coon. As soon as I re casted the dog that won was 1000 yards total opposite direction so we started walking away from mine instantly. Mine goes 700 yards and trees number 2 in 15 mins but they had walked me away from him for 30 mins in the total opposite direction. I requested the judge to let me go back to where we cut mine and they said no not unless you can hear him from where we are. Well if course I couldn't they walked me totally opposite direction. Now tell me how I didn't have the better dog or what I could have done differently. I had no choice but to withdraw and go get mine and yes he had the coon. See in the pic I cut at the road straight left and they walked me almost in a straight line straight right. Awful luck and some real bs with thousands of dollars on the line

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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2585

LUCK

This is a rare situation, but it's a luck story. I hunted in a small slam last night. 3 dog cast. One dog is out of pocket. Nobody has plus with just a few minutes left. Judges dog trees. As soon as we get to her tree my dog trees 30 yards away. In 3 minutes I go to handle my dog. On the way to her tree I see the coon coming down the trunk of the tree. Then he turns and goes back up. I tie my dog at the base of the tree and go back to shine the judges tree. We don't find his coon. We go to my dog's tree and shine for 6 minutes, no eyes. Dead cast. That would've been her 5th cast win.

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Old Post 10-25-2020 05:29 PM
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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2246

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I believe to make a deep run in a national level hunt you first and foremost need the better dog then the other 3 you draw out with. Combine that with one or more lucky breaks you absolutely have to have. In a timed coon hunt when you cut 4 dogs loose there are so many factors that come into play that are way more in depth then just your dog getting under a coon.

In the quarterfinals my dog had his 2nd coon treed before the dog that won treed its first. Mine had number 2 treed with an hour and 30 minutes left. It was very windy and the guide told me to cut straight north off my first coon. As soon as I re casted the dog that won was 1000 yards total opposite direction so we started walking away from mine instantly. Mine goes 700 yards and trees number 2 in 15 mins but they had walked me away from him for 30 mins in the total opposite direction. I requested the judge to let me go back to where we cut mine and they said no not unless you can hear him from where we are. Well if course I couldn't they walked me totally opposite direction. Now tell me how I didn't have the better dog or what I could have done differently. I had no choice but to withdraw and go get mine and yes he had the coon.



I'm no pro handler, but if there is a situation where I know I'm going to have to walk towards someone else in the wind, I cut in that direction.

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Rick St.Clair
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Registered: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 323

A lot of (IF's) here!! IF my aunt had b@lls she would have been my uncle.

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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 707

quote:
Originally posted by Rick St.Clair
A lot of (IF's) here!! IF my aunt had b@lls she would have been my uncle.


Rick you are correct bad break or not... just like everybody other than Zack at the end of the day I got beat 🤣

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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 4778

JB COBB

When you take everything as a whole hunt after hunt, etc. the breaks go both ways. Some breaks you benefit from, some breaks cost you. The better the dog the less the breaks will matter, or I should say the better the dog the better the breaks will be. Funny how that works, a really good dog makes their breaks, others tend to rely on breaks and complain when the breaks go against them. Not saying you are one of those folks, sounds like you are honest and admit when you just got beat by a better dog. Our egos sometimes cloud our judgement on what we are actually hunting, especially if you know what the dog can do, but the dog does not do what you want or messes up and we think we got a bad break. My buddy and I are hunting a younger dog that WAS doing an outstanding job treeing coons, but the last week or so has looked like crap, missing coons, pulling up short. Talk about scratching your head, this has got us wondering what has happened. The only thing that changed was shooting coons out and let him fight them. Dogs are just dogs. Dave

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Dave Richards
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Posts: 4778

Double post

Double post

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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 707

Dave Iíve been playing this game a long long time... I enjoy a good cast win or loose...Iíve been blessed to win a few on luck and lost some the same way.. but as long as I loose fair Iíll shake a mans hand and wish him luck the next round. I had some bad breaks this week but every time I lost I lost fair and square..I had good folks to hunt with and enjoyed every night. Believe it or not the only complaint I had all week was the cast I won... My dog treed the only coon scored and had 175+...The other two dogs were at large one was struck for 50 and the other for 25 and they made me cut back loose with 4 minutes left in the cast.... yea I didnít like it....

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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 4778

JB COBB

Yes, that would make anyone mad, those are the kind I am referring to, they want a win any way they can get it, dog power or not. I like your style and the way you think. I wonder how many folks that actually WIN on a break admit that, or say my dog just got lucky, most take credit for having the better dog When they WIN. Now when they lose its a different story, bad break or BAD luck is the cause, not dog power. Anyone that HUNTS in enough HUNTS will both benefit and not benefit from " breaks" or "luck", personally I prefer enough dog power to overcome the breaks and luck factors and that's just PLEASURE hunting. Dave

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JB Cobb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2006
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 707

Dave folks complain about these guys with unlimited resources...and yes it puts the little guy like myself at a disadvantage sometimes..As they can take the old saying literal... if you canít beat him buy him 😂 But you will find that most and I say most folks handling these big money hounds are the best folks to hunt with.. they are like you say win on dog power not breaks good or bad... take their lumps find your coon and shake your hand when you beat them.

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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 4778

quote:
Originally posted by JB Cobb
Dave folks complain about these guys with unlimited resources...and yes it puts the little guy like myself at a disadvantage sometimes..As they can take the old saying literal... if you canít beat him buy him 😂 But you will find that most and I say most folks handling these big money hounds are the best folks to hunt with.. they are like you say win on dog power not breaks good or bad... take their lumps find your coon and shake your hand when you beat them.


Man, that's the way it should be, that is WIN with Honor LOSE with Honor. At the end if the day you have to be able to look in the mirror and not be ashamed of what you see, at least I do. Dave

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ChrisS22
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2019
Location:
Posts: 11

You WOULD think that with that many entries the quality of the dogs entered would've fallen off... NOPE!

I hunted on six cast Mon-Thursday, I loss early round Monday on a tie breaker, got beat early Tuesday and won my early rounds Wednesday, and Thursday. My hound never drew a minus and I never made a bad call all week. I still couldn't catch a break and win a late round. EVERY CAST was won with plus points.

I've hunted in the #KC WH every year since 92-93 the quality of dogs entered this year was IMO the best I've every seen. I hunted or judged 32 dogs in 5 nights I only saw one dog I didn't think had any business being there.

No complaints no excuses from me... at the end of the day I GOT BEAT!

As far as affordability, do like me... I nominate my 2 dogs ($75 each) and show up with two free entries. This year never had to pay out of pocket to hunt. Hunted two free entries and won two early cast wins (paid $300 each), which means I played with the houses' money all week.

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Craig Cooper
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 818

Coonhunting is a dying sport here in NC where I live . We donít have anywhere good to hunt anymore . And that is a fact .

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wart
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 269

Hunt

Just as Mr Cooper states in some areas it's gone forever due to development, logging and deer hunting there are hunters in these areas but no places left to free cast dogs

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B McDaniel
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2015
Location: Cordele, Ga
Posts: 221

Good points by all and I agree with most of them:

You better show up with a Coon Dog!

You better hope for some luck or good breaks, however you want to define them, along the way!

Been lucky enough to beat some World Champions along the way - and also have had the tar whooped out of us by ones that had never won a cast before.................

And as for hating on folks like the Heather Island guys, let's all just stop and think this over for a minute................ if any of us won the lottery (only way I'll ever be rich! lol) wouldnt we do the SAME thing???

I sure as heck know I would! I say more power to ya! Go on and live that dream!

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AAThoundhunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location:
Posts: 147

Brad

I'm with Brad on this one. If you've got the money why wouldn't you go out and buy the best of the best. Most of us hunt all of our lives trying to get one that has the ability to compete week after week with the top dogs, not just getting lucky and beating a top dog one time.


If those guys came knockin at your door with that big check, most of you wouldn't be complaining then.

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