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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Richard is right about all the other factors, that come into play...lol Having to keep multiple dogs or have lots of friends, raising pups, training, getting run over, etc.....
I am dumber than i thought
I just need to pick the right pup!

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Old Post 06-25-2020 03:54 PM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Yeedkinreever and Conrad.

Lipper and tar rattler were two different lines but they complimented each other I ain’t doing somthing that ain’t been proven before. And the stud I bred to has no stylish Harry nowhere now you know what I mean Vern !!



Tar

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Old Post 06-25-2020 04:08 PM
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yadkinriver
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1656

You're suppose to be fishing. Can't we have any privacy?

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Old Post 06-25-2020 04:13 PM
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yadkintar
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Location: Marietta
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkinriver
You're suppose to be fishing. Can't we have any privacy?



I went they had lockjaw caught one catfish and a 30 lb carp that like to tore the boat up lol.


Tar

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Old Post 06-25-2020 04:30 PM
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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Now back to the original question 😁
Some of you all are trashy, off running foxes.
Does Tree affect track?

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

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Old Post 06-25-2020 06:24 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Of course.

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Old Post 06-25-2020 06:32 PM
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Bryan K Webb
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Buncombe Il.
Posts: 176

I think balance is the hardest thing to reproduce.. However, in my humble opinion it all depends on what you want and like... I believe dogs have certain times of the year they look better then others... Had a dog that was Skuna River on top and Sacket bred on the bottom... He was very accurate and was a really good track dog... He looked his absolute best when coons were feeding on the ground and traveling looking for food... He was just an average dog at best in my humble opinion when coons were feeding on acorns and when the kittens first came down.. He tried to be Accurate and could set up trees and leave them until basically he put the last track up... He improved with age and made a really nice hound, but would've always liked him to him have a little more treedog in him!!!

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Old Post 06-25-2020 07:02 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
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quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Now back to the original question 😁
Some of you all are trashy, off running foxes.
Does Tree affect track?




They are either born with superior tracking ability and tree accuracy or they ain’t. That ink on the papers of how many ever generations or how you stack it has nothing to do with it.


Babe Ruth’s parents didn’t play baseball.


Tar

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Old Post 06-25-2020 07:26 PM
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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

How come some people seem to always have it and some don't?
Are they just born lucky? Had parents that played ball ?
Wimp Aaron how did he keep a good line of dogs for all this time? I think he is on Queen xvi(16)
I agree they are born with it
I am a firm believer that the more tree blood you stick in there, the track and accuracy will suffer.
Now the problem i have always had, is agreeing with other hunters which line of dogs are Tree and which lines are track.
Accuracy is a good measuring stick for me.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Old Post 06-25-2020 08:30 PM
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oldsouth123
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Registered: Oct 2018
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Posts: 30

Yadkin Tar

Lipper's grand mother Gold Hill Lou and Rattler's grand father Wright's Pistol Pete were litter mates off of Wrights Sue and Stans Sailor Jr. A.J. Wright raised both dogs and sold Lou to Bobby Shives and that's the rest of the story.

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Old Post 06-26-2020 06:25 AM
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yadkintar
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Re: Yadkin Tar

quote:
Originally posted by oldsouth123
Lipper's grand mother Gold Hill Lou and Rattler's grand father Wright's Pistol Pete were litter mates off of Wrights Sue and Stans Sailor Jr. A.J. Wright raised both dogs and sold Lou to Bobby Shives and that's the rest of the story.



That’s why I said they complimented each other sure hope it works I need somthing to motivate me.



Tar

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Old Post 06-26-2020 12:09 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Oh my goodness Tar, are you a fan of line breeding now? What happened to all of those posts about hybrid vigor and x breeding? You sure are hard to keep up with.

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Old Post 06-26-2020 01:09 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness Tar, are you a fan of line breeding now? What happened to all of those posts about hybrid vigor and x breeding? You sure are hard to keep up with.



One more puppy will finish me up I want one I like without looking at the papers and wondering when it’s going to turn to dookie.



Tar

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Old Post 06-26-2020 01:11 PM
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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

A few things mentioned
I have witnessed dogs that couldn't track worth a darn at certain times of the year. Mostly spring or winter. Different dogs. Are they still track dogs the other 3 seasons?

I have seen some fellows that couldn't have a accurate dog regardless of breeding and vice versa. Some fellows that have accurate dogs with heavy bred tree stock. Has anyone else seen this?

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Old Post 06-26-2020 01:53 PM
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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
A few things mentioned
I have witnessed dogs that couldn't track worth a darn at certain times of the year. Mostly spring or winter. Different dogs. Are they still track dogs the other 3 seasons?

I have seen some fellows that couldn't have a accurate dog regardless of breeding and vice versa. Some fellows that have accurate dogs with heavy bred tree stock. Has anyone else seen this?



Genetics of the dogs coming out, major outcrossing causes a box of chocolates 😊

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Old Post 06-26-2020 02:22 PM
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JesseJ
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2014
Location: Wichita Falls,Tx
Posts: 453

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
One more puppy will finish me up I want one I like without looking at the papers and wondering when it’s going to turn to dookie.

You told me you was done with pups the last time we talk? LOL. JESSEJ

Tar

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Old Post 06-26-2020 02:34 PM
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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by JesseJ





That was before Ralph talked me into breeding babe to late now lol.



Tar

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Old Post 06-26-2020 02:38 PM
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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Genetics of the dogs coming out, major outcrossing causes a box of chocolates 😊
I have known idea how ya come to that conclusion. What I have said and questioned is what I've seen with consistency.

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Old Post 06-27-2020 01:58 AM
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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Sorry evidently I did not understand your statement.
But I would say a dog that can’t track in winter should not be considered a track dog 😊

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Old Post 06-27-2020 02:47 PM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Genetics of the dogs coming out, major outcrossing causes a box of chocolates 😊


The first outcross could be the first major one...

When I first started breeding with goals and a plan I used to think that breeding related dogs would get me the same type of dogs...even breeding tight got me harder hunting dogs and dogs with a higher amount of grit...as time went by I came to realize it is not what is the sire and dam (visual) but also what is in them...and what is in them is also what was in the pedigree in the first three generations...and also from further back...especially if one top dog shows up 5 or 6 times in a pedigree...but no matter what every breeding should be well thought out...even with tight breeding we must try our best to select the best possible pups for hunting but more importantly for breeding to at least improve on the percentage of good pups produced...it really helps when we start out with good dogs...no doubt about it...

The end results were dogs that hunted very hard, ranged further and it was a major concern in the heat and had issues with it...
The grit was at a higher level and this could cause issues as well...
This wasn’t all pups but was starting to see more of it...

I picked pups that were game and those that rolled out naturally... I picked as much for natural inclination...it was a little challenging but with the alpha it would be easier and with the running vests as well...

What I got out of it is if we focus on more we will get it...I wanted more hunt and grit and sometimes it comes with a price...some dogs no longer hunt with you because they hunt for themselves...too much grit and the potential for the dog to be seriously injured goes up...

I been breeding a new line of hog dogs for the last ten years and have probably culled 40 dogs weeding out so called good dogs I was told we excellent...maybe I’m too hard nosed about what I like...

Also culled a few litters...even though others like them well enough...

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Team Mafia 2
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Registered: Feb 2018
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I don’t even know that a person needs to breed for “Tree” heck any dog can be taught to tree I don’t care what it’s bred like. Having a coon when it trees is the trick. Give me a pup that from 6 months to 15 months is looking to strike deer and catches one every now and then and accidentally makes 1 or 2 trees a week and I will show you how to make a Wild coon treeing piece of equipment.

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Old Post 07-02-2020 06:58 AM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
I don’t even know that a person needs to breed for “Tree” heck any dog can be taught to tree I don’t care what it’s bred like. Having a coon when it trees is the trick. Give me a pup that from 6 months to 15 months is looking to strike deer and catches one every now and then and accidentally makes 1 or 2 trees a week and I will show you how to make a Wild coon treeing piece of equipment.


I take that same pup and make a jam up hog dog out of it as well...and the trashier the better...

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Old Post 07-02-2020 11:25 AM
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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

I agree with Dalton, tree is never a factor for me, accuracy is King in my book, and desire to hunt, it's what makes me happy.
I have a 3 acre puppy pen and pulled a coon in a roll cage around in it making some loops, at 9 and 10 weeks old the pups were scared, but after i took it out of there area they had there tails up smelling track, and several worked for a couple hours
Just piddling smelling and working, very encouraging.
The older blooded dogs may take a little longer to mature on tree, but they just keep getting better with age. And don't top out at 2.5 years old.

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Striving to breed balanced Treeing Walkers.

"Life is short boys, Hunt an intelligent hound"

Born in sin, convicted by the Word, saved by Grace.

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Old Post 07-02-2020 04:44 PM
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rgregory
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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: London, Kentucky
Posts: 138

Tree vs track

I don't think you can have too much tree but not having tracking ability is what causes accuracy problems.

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Old Post 07-03-2020 12:32 PM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3363

Re: Tree vs track

quote:
Originally posted by rgregory
I don't think you can have too much tree but not having tracking ability is what causes accuracy problems.
You need to think this over a little more.

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