Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22463

There are judges that automatically think any dog that barks in the first minute is babbling. Then there are judges that think no dogs ever babble. There are judges that think that as long as a dog continues to bark and eventually ends up treed (takes a track out) they shouldn't be minused. There are judges that think that whenever you strike your dog within the minute, you should be minused. There are judges who think that as long as you wait until the minute is up, you shouldn't be minused. It is amazing that there is such a wide variance in how this rule is enforced.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5641

Two dogs strike a second apart and tree in two different directions, both digs got a coon, Dog A score 225 plus, dog B score 200 plus. Do you really think dog A is the better dog? When we realize dogs are treed on separate trees, we move digs tree POINTS up, the same could be done with strike POINTS. Under the current scoring system, dogs are punished on strike POINTS, often times a babbler will win due to higher strike POINTS. Why do separate tree get scored separately and we still use one set of strike POINTS? The RULES favor a automatic strike dog, awarding separate strike POINTS for separate coons treed would eliminate the advantage of s babbler/automatic strike dog. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: Greenville, pa.
Posts: 72

X2

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22463

But Mr Dave you would be giving that silent or semi silent dog a huge advantage. His strike points would never get minused. If you changed the rule to what you are suggesting, then in 3 yrs everyone would be hunting a silent dog. Everyone would just stand around talking and watching their Garmin until the dogs got treed. A nite hunt would consist of just walking from tree to tree and the dog that made the most in 2 hrs would win. Where would the fun in that be? Dogs like that are the reason there are so few hunters now.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-22-2018 at 11:35 PM

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Two dogs strike a second apart and tree in two different directions, both digs got a coon, Dog A score 225 plus, dog B score 200 plus. Do you really think dog A is the better dog? When we realize dogs are treed on separate trees, we move digs tree POINTS up, the same could be done with strike POINTS. Under the current scoring system, dogs are punished on strike POINTS, often times a babbler will win due to higher strike POINTS. Why do separate tree get scored separately and we still use one set of strike POINTS? The RULES favor a automatic strike dog, awarding separate strike POINTS for separate coons treed would eliminate the advantage of s babbler/automatic strike dog. Dave

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5641

Just in case one makes a mistake! Lol. Seriously, I would rather lose on a coin toss, than lose by 25 strike POINTS when both dogs struck and treed separate coons. Dogs are winning hunts now by babbling and getting treed a mile deep, while an honest dog strikes and trees a coon closer, yet takes less strike POINTS. Anyway, we are just looking at eliminating the babbler advantage. I really never have understood the one set strike POINTS where there are separate coons, separate directions and separate trees. When ALL DOGS were striking and treeing together it was not a problem, it is a problem now, whether we admit it or not. Old babbler/auto strike dog has the unfair advantage. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Dec 2017
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Posts: 340

The days of the pack dogs are over , ole deep an lonely is here to stay. To me strick points make more sense when dogs did pack. Because they were conpeting against one another , if that makes sense. But now it’s all dogs are split . All I see strick points good for is get first strick , get deep an walk the clock out. I say all that to say this , most play by play you follow, you will hear dogs being struck under the minute . And then dogs are splitting up in different direction . Before you know it they all are split up a mile apart . Were there four coon there that split up and took different directions. It’s almost like it’s not about who has the best coon dog , but who can out handle who. And we wonder why the coonhound breed in general is suffering .I say no strick points an award the dog that trees the coon. That way a person can hunt his babbler or what ever dog he or she likes.

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 162

WHAT IF you had a four dog cast the handlers of dogs a+b strike their dog within the first min. after the first min. is gone no dogs are opening on track the judge starts the time on dogs a+b gives them one min. if the time is not broke minus them for the points they struck in for?

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2620

quote:

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Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Well heck get a luckyer dog, look all this talk will never get a rule changed, not one person on here can tell me how to get a rule changed,Who do you send a rule change perposal to? Who is on the rules committee? Who put them on the rules committee, who makes the final vote, who put them in charge of the final vote?
That’s What You Guys Should Be Concerned about!

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Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

quote:

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Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Let’s say under the new 60 minute hunt, both dogs struck for 100, they split hafe mile apart, both have a coon, you burned all 60 minutes, both dogs at 225+ who wins? The only tie breaker is to flip a coin. So why even cut loose.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5641

That would be okay. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

quote:

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Originally posted by jkidd1
Tim I thought I gave u all this info, i told u you can send them rule proposals to me or Grant Noeske.

Grant and Alan Kahal will be the ones setting in for the walker association making the final vote.

The board members put them in the positions they're in to make the final vote. The board members are picked by the members of the association. They give ballots out in the mail and at their breed events for the members to vote and appoint these people.

If you really have a proposal send it in.

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

How about this. Four dogs , cut them loose . No strike given . Dog A gets treed right handed , 100 strick , 125 tree . Dog B gets treed left handed , 100 strick , 125 tree. As soon as dog gets treed ,start count down on tree . If dog C or D goes to either they are scored according to the count down. As far as strick I feel like C or D shouldn’t receive any if they back . Now if two dogs ran same track in whoever trees first gets 100 strick an 75 to next dog.This way a person can hunt whatever style dog he wants. And will cut back on the me tooing dog also.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

25 points across the board on strike , tree points stay the same and no more leash lock. JMHO

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2154

When the rules were set up 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strike were to receive strike points in the order that they were struck. That hasn't changed, nor should it change.

When the rules were set up 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree were to receive tree points in the order they were treed.

The idea was that the dogs were competing against each other, as it was intended when the point system was implemented. When a dog actually treed 2nd or 3rd, but got split from the 1st tree dog, it would receive tree points just as if it was a "real" 1st tree dog. Admittedly, that is not really fair to the "real" 1st tree dog. It was a big advantage for the dog that couldn't keep up, but could get away and tree it's own coon.

Now, we have dogs that if they can't tree 1st, will run away and try to find their own tree. Under the rules, they get just as many points as a 1st tree dog. Common sense should tell you that if you cut 4 dogs loose, they can't all be 1st tree dogs. But, under current rules, as long as they don't tree "with" the dogs that tree ahead of them, they can all get 1st tree points (just as if they were a "real 1st tree dog").

Now, some are following the logic that if every dog can get 1st tree points, why can't they also get 1st strike points, after all, they were first to strike on the tree that they are on. This way, they can all be 1st strike dogs, and 1st tree dogs. We all know that's really not possibly in reality.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22463

quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh
...... in reality......

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Oh my goodness, now we're talking about reality. You do realize that this is the interweb?

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5641

You are talking like the dig to tree first is the true coon dog, and the rest are to slow to keep up. That's nonsense, you are right about they all can't be first strike or first tree, I certainly don't advocate that. I merely pointed out the inequity of dogs getting separate tree POINTS, but not separate strike POINTS. How is this a tryout test, a competition should be as true a test as possible. You somehow want to imply that a dog striking and treeing independently is somehow less dog. If there weren't different coons to run and tree, they would not be doing so. Slick tree get minused, tracks they don't finish get minused. A dog only get plus POINTS for doing it right, striking and treeing a coon that is seen. If separate POINTS for separate coons is given to both strike and tree, it would be fair to everyone. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

i would be happy with a no leash lock rule . that way my dog would have a chance of treeing those coons seen sitting up on the one mile death march to ole deep dog. lol a dog that babbles and goes a mile alone with two looking down can be beat if you are treeing 2 to his 1 and have coons in your trees .

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 1009

quote:

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Originally posted by thomasg
i would be happy with a no leash lock rule .

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Shane

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22463

Didn't they just change the leash lock rule at the last rule change vote?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

No !!

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22463

When did we get the "option" to turn them loose or keep them on the lead? My poor brain is a little fuzzy this morning.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

Well my pack dogs must have been babbling and tight mouth both last night , first turn out about 10 barks on the ground then treed 2nd maybe a bark every 4 minutes for a mile then treed , 3rd dump left out of their screaming and caught that rascal in an old cattle guard about 3/8 of a mile from where I turned loose. I think I am glad I made the switch from NIKE to New Balance.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
When did we get the "option" to turn them loose or keep them on the lead? My poor brain is a little fuzzy this morning.

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Registered: Mar 2018
Location:
Posts: 4

I agree with some other post with the strike rule, make it 25 for all dogs. These babbling idiot dogs need to be weeded out. I always thought the dog who trees the coon first is the better dog not who lucks onto a track and barks first.

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