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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

And her half sister, another Jim female split with another coon.

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Old Post 02-28-2019 04:12 AM
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bjenks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Louisa, KY
Posts: 199

Richard

I can’t honestly tell you the last time I’ve actually been in the woods with a walker dog that I would call a coon dog. The ones that I’ve hunted with lately are all slick treein idiots that occasionally look good on feeder bucket coons. Why would I want to breed to that?? Right now I like the B3 stuff because dogs like Jim and Pistol have the traits that I’m looking for. They are get gone get treed kinda hounds with good mouths, both of them, and that’s what I like. If you remember, I used to own a little gyp I called Polly. I believe you hunted Boone with her one night on the lake down at Deons. How’d that night go?? Do you remember?? Well, She died unexpectedly 3 years ago after getting home from SRDs. I would rather have her right now standing in my kennels then I would any B3 or Jim dog, and she was outta 2 PR dogs that weren’t even coon dogs they were bear dogs. If I were interested in pedigree, then I would have missed out on a pretty nice little dog, and if she isn’t proof enough, then let me know and we’ll cut Tsunami loose one night or I’ll go get Joker from Butterbean and we’ll cut him loose, both full brothers to PR Polly. I asked you about your female because I’ve hunted with one of her littermate brothers and really liked what I saw. We’re sitting on B3 semen, because we haven’t found the right female to put it in. If your little female has the same traits as her brother, which I’ve heard that she does then she would be a good candidate to breed back to the 3 dog. We’re not gettin any younger so why sit on it? Ive been blessed to have had the opportunity to hunt with a lot of different red dogs over the last 20 years, spent many a night in the woods with Redbone guys that’s been doing this along time, I even got hung up for awhile on a dog they called Snake, which to this day is still the best red dog I’ve had the privilege to hunt with. With all that I’ve seen and hunted with over the years, the percentages of red dogs that I’ve seen consistently leave out in a dead run and get treed and stay treed until you go get em and absolutely DO NOT come back is very low. Clint’s Pistol dog, Rexs Jim dog, and the dog we had called Slick (B3xHeidi) are and were exactly as I described and that is what we’re looking for, and if that’s not enough, there’s not an ill hair on any of them. If you can show me another dog like that, I could care less what it’s pedigree is. I’ll breed to it, and I’ll probably even try to buy it. Just point me in that direction. Did you know that I hauled our Josie bitch (B3xHeidi) 7 hours one way to have her bred to the snake semen that was used on your dog?? Drove 7 hours dropped her off and drove home only to have the vet call me and tell me that we missed her, and to come get her. I still think he was full of crap, but Josie didn’t get bred. Do you think that I went through all that money and time just to breed to a dog that was outta Rusty or outta Zack or double Ace bred or whatever? Heck No!! I did it to breed her to the best Coondog of any breed that I’ve ever hunted with. I could care less what Snake was out of, i hunted with him enough to know that he was, and he was exactly what I was looking for. Id breed to him tomorrow if I could.

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Preston Owens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

Breeding

I dont blame a person for what they breed for or look for in a dog for breeding. I think that anyone breeding any dogs quickly see the traits that are set in to a particular dog, good and bad. It's my personal thought that line breeding and culling is the way to set the desired traits. I think if a dog or particular cross isnt concentrated by line breeding itll vanish. Theres no doubt that b3,Bo,Sue, chatty,willie,joe,Moe etc carried the traits that are in high demand. I can say that because I spent the gas to go see. Anyway I saw 1 female turn up in the "banjo" dogs that consistently caused "moodiness" I wont post it out in public. But it was so dominant that it came thru even when linebreeding away from her. It was because of the linebreeding in her years back. Imo anyway that taught me something. Definitely breed to what I like and stay away from what I dont. And above all breeding goes way deeper than a couple generations. 1 tight bred dog mixed in can mess up the best cross generations later. I had thought about breeding b3 to a Jim daughter. Probably will wait until these pups of LG and Son are finished out before I do it. I could talk for days about Banjo. But not on this forum.

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Old Post 02-28-2019 09:27 AM
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bjenks
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Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Louisa, KY
Posts: 199

Preston

I agree with you about the line breeding. It’s a proven fact that Dalmatians will loose their spots if they aren’t line bred. Long story short, Deon and I have some semen stored in our names out of the 3 dog. The intent of the purchase was to use it on Polly. Unfortunately She died Before we were able to use it. She’s been gone 3 years now and Moonlight May has been the only female with the traits that we are looking for that we have been able to buy and breed. If we could have found a purebred bitch with her qualities for sale, we would have bought her. We are just trying to produce some better dogs to help our kennel and hopefully help the breed.

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Old Post 02-28-2019 12:23 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Traits... You say that you want "drive" or "get gone" in a hound. I turned Rhonda and Bell loose in the same big woods last night. It was East Tn ridges and hollers, not flat land. Bell treed 2 coons and a pine with a big nest. Rhonda treed 1 coon and a pine with a nest.
Now Bell's trees were 150-350 yds. One of Rhonda's was 700 yds and the other was .78 mi. Which dog would you rather have/hunt?

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Old Post 02-28-2019 04:10 PM
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Preston Owens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

King

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Traits... You say that you want "drive" or "get gone" in a hound. I turned Rhonda and Bell loose in the same big woods last night. It was East Tn ridges and hollers, not flat land. Bell treed 2 coons and a pine with a big nest. Rhonda treed 1 coon and a pine with a nest.
Now Bell's trees were 150-350 yds. One of Rhonda's was 700 yds and the other was .78 mi. Which dog would you rather have/hunt?



That's a loaded question. 😁

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Not for me, it is an easy one to answer. But then I am 70 years old.

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Crazy Luke
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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 406

Richard

I wish you could hunt with Mandy II. One Nite hunt she was in, she treed a coon in 15 seconds. The one dog was taking a poop in the road and she was treed that fast. Then she went 900 hundred yards and treed a coon. So I will take my deep hunting dog that will tree them close ones also. Now come on , you know we are just giving you a hard time. But heck. At 70 I don't know if I want to be chasing those deep hunting dogs either. Maybe you should just send that pup off Pistol you got saved for yourself up here so you don't have to be chasing it all over those mountains.If he has it in him I will get it out and take him to the hunts. I can have a guy pic him up this weekend, I think.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Re: Preston

quote:
Originally posted by bjenks
I agree with you about the line breeding........ We are just trying to produce some better dogs to help our kennel and hopefully help the breed.


That is what I am doing also. I really appreciate Clint Burger working to help me. I agree about the traits part that you posted about but you have to look at pedigrees also in order to line breed. You have to pick the best male out of a cross and breed him to the best female out of a cross. Then you pick the best male out of that cross and breed him to the best female out of another cross where you did the same thing. After several generations of doing this, you should get the traits that you are looking for. But it won't happen in one or two years. It may even take five or ten years to get results like this.

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Preston Owens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

Re: Re: Preston

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
That is what I am doing also. I really appreciate Clint Burger working to help me. I agree about the traits part that you posted about but you have to look at pedigrees also in order to line breed. You have to pick the best male out of a cross and breed him to the best female out of a cross. Then you pick the best male out of that cross and breed him to the best female out of another cross where you did the same thing. After several generations of doing this, you should get the traits that you are looking for. But it won't happen in one or two years. It may even take five or ten years to get results like this.


Can you post the pedigree King? Is this breeding cousins? Family breeding? Or is it line breeding? Educate me 😂

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

You take a line bred female and outcross her. Then you take the best female out of the outcross and line breed her back to her cousin. You are linebreeding but not that tight. That is the pedigree part.
Now for the trait part. You take a very Independant male with a whole lot of drive and breed him to a balanced female with a cold nose that is Independant but trees those close coons. Since she is tight linebred, you know that her traits are "fixed". The goal was to get pups that were Independant and had plenty of drive but hunted the woods you cut them in and did not just leave the country.Then you take a female from this cross that is super Independant and has a whole lot of drive and breed her to her sire's nephew who is also super Independant with a whole lot of drive. Who do you think that the pups will be like: Pistol, Jim, Jon Henry, B III, Banjo, Rabble, Haze, Rhonda, Missi, Wendy, Heidi, Willow, Sally? And does it really matter? I would take a remake of any of them.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

And for the paper breeders, this is what it looks like. And if you go on back, you will see that Haze and Willow are half brother/sister. Rabble and Pigeon are also half brother/sister. If you go on back in B III and Missi's pedigree, you will see a whole lot of Fireball but that is Preston's domain. ....


............................B III
...............Jon Henry
.............................
........Pistol
...........................
.................Missi
...........................
Pups
..........................B III
..................Jim
...........................Heidi
.........Rhonda
.................................Rabble
.........................Haze
..................................Pigeon
...................Wendy
.................................Rabble
.........................Willow
.................................Sally

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Preston Owens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

King

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You take a line bred female and outcross her. Then you take the best female out of the outcross and line breed her back to her cousin. You are linebreeding but not that tight. That is the pedigree part.
Now for the trait part. You take a very Independant male with a whole lot of drive and breed him to a balanced female with a cold nose that is Independant but trees those close coons. Since she is tight linebred, you know that her traits are "fixed". The goal was to get pups that were Independant and had plenty of drive but hunted the woods you cut them in and did not just leave the country.Then you take a female from this cross that is super Independant and has a whole lot of drive and breed her to her sire's nephew who is also super Independant with a whole lot of drive. Who do you think that the pups will be like: Pistol, Jim, Jon Henry, B III, Banjo, Rabble, Haze, Rhonda, Missi, Wendy, Heidi, Willow, Sally? And does it really matter? I would take a remake of any of them.



😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 I think mr Hyde once called this Soup

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Preston Owens
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Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

Talking Folks

The king has earned a new Title. THE REMAKER ..

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George pouliott
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Registered: Nov 2015
Location: st. augustine Fl
Posts: 311

I like the b3 blood and fireball . I've seen some nice hounds come from it . I have owned 2 . First one grandson to John Henry best track dog I ever saw . He would get deep at 6 month's he split and went a mile before I caught him up . He was a first strike dog and could burn up a track better then any dog I've ever seen or hunted against . But I hunted him for 3 year's and never could get him to tree . I did everything I knew even shipped him off for 2 month's to a man that could get anything to tree . Wasn't happening so I finally cut my losses with him . Second one I still currently own . Grandson to Stevo x Chilli big dog beautiful bawl mouth pretty loud but very close hunter and at 2 1/2 yrs old he doesn't seem to have the tree in him either . I've yet to cut my losses with him but maybe he needs someone better at it then me I'm no trainer but do put in boot time .

Unfortunately right now everything here is getting pen stale . I had an ear surgery that went wrong and don't know when I'll get back to the woods .

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Richard Lambert
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Jim x Wilma daughter....Is this what y'all are breeding for?

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George pouliott
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Registered: Nov 2015
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Jim x Wilma daughter....Is this what y'all are breeding for?




Good looking female ! Them good female's are hard to come by .

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Richard Lambert
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Posts: 22460

Oh my goodness, I just got my Bloodlines Magazine. Rhonda's mother Wendy and Wendy's mother Willow are both on the Top Reproducers List. Wendy is Bella's grandmother and Willow is her great grandmother. And Moose, Bella's grand sire is also on that list. I wonder if that has anything to do with how they turned out? Or is it all just the Jim/B III genes?

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Preston Owens
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Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

King

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, I just got my Bloodlines Magazine. Rhonda's mother Wendy and Wendy's mother Willow are both on the Top Reproducers List. Wendy is Bella's grandmother and Willow is her great grandmother. And Moose, Bella's grand sire is also on that list. I wonder if that has anything to do with how they turned out? Or is it all just the Jim/B III genes?


Its definitely Big Jim/BIII/Fireball

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Crazy Luke
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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 406

Richard

By now you should realize that the stud gets all the credit. When did redbone lines start going by the females name? They don't. They go by the stud dogs name. But thank you for making the Pigeon River Jim /Banjo 3 name a little better.. If the breed is gonna get any better it will be because guys like you are will to give up there name and be married to someone else.... Ha... Just like all the girls do. They give up there name. Me I got 6 girls here and no males. Yup. been trying to improve the breed through the dams for quite some time. So quodo's to you. Lucas.

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Hoosier Outlaw
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Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4281

Re: Richard

quote:
Originally posted by Crazy Luke
By now you should realize that the stud gets all the credit. When did redbone lines start going by the females name? They don't. They go by the stud dogs name. But thank you for making the Pigeon River Jim /Banjo 3 name a little better.. If the breed is gonna get any better it will be because guys like you are will to give up there name and be married to someone else.... Ha... Just like all the girls do. They give up there name. Me I got 6 girls here and no males. Yup. been trying to improve the breed through the dams for quite some time. So quodo's to you. Lucas.

I wouldnt say never...
The Outlaw and Moonlight lines started with Keys Outlaw Jesse and Moonlight Kate

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Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
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My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Addiction
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Overdose
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Jinx
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Mark, you are right and I will do whatever it takes. Since I don't have a male, I don't have a "line" but that doesn't bother me one bit. Here is a Fickens Deepwoods Rocky and a Pigeon River Jim pup together tonight. Oh yeah, they are half sisters.

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Preston Owens
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Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

King

You know when all the fluff and poking is over a dog is the product of all the different variables. The perfect dog hasnt been bred up yet because we arent "creators" what some like others hate. I'm glad you came on over. All these threads are entertaining. But does it help to improve anything? Will the best dog ever bred make the best if it isnt hunted? Will a dog that will go 2 miles suit everyone or one that sits back until another dog gets a track going suit anyone? Will there ever be peace in the Redbone breed 😂 or will it always be this is better or that is better, I did this or they did that. Does anyone have an original Redbone? Would anyone hunt an original redbone? When I was a kid me and pop would go hunt coon in the mornings some of his stock would track and tree a coon at 10 am that had moved before midnight. Its came a long way from those days. Not saying those dogs wouldnt burn up a hot track but times have changed. Gotta love the drama in this Breed !

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Would you say that B III pups are tree minded?

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B&Ttreed2017
Banned

Registered: Apr 2017
Location: Olney
Posts: 425

Moonlite May & Banjo lll

If May and B3 were in fact both 50% walkers , how are they throwin all red pups? Im only askin because Im tryin to learn all I can about the Redbone breed cause I like what Ive been seein lately. Thanks in advance for any info.

And this is whats runnin thru the veins of my sons new pup..
Guitars Ghost
T Top Rock n Red Raven
Hobo Jack
Famous Outlaw Ann
Keys Outlaw Jesse
Stepps Lil Pepper
Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate
Keys Outlaw Red Moon
Moonlight Pepper Ann
T Top Rabble Rouser
Taylors Guitar
Fireballs Timberchoppin Dan
T Top Tree Talkin Red Rat
T Top Tree Talkin Red Raven
Meltons Reverend Red
Sawblade Fiddle.

Thats just the bottom side and the top side is ALL Fireball.
Im new to the Red dogs , if anyone would like to fill me in on any of these hounds and/or what traits we should see at about what age please school us. Again, Thank You Very Much.

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God Is Great!!
______________________________

Bradleys Tenacious Super Star
Leons Darkside x Blue Label Lilly
2 Wins towards UKC Show Champion
Owned & Handled by 9 yr old Bradley__________________________
618-320-0880 Cell
~Rest In Peace Ole Boy~
Biehls Tenacious Jet
Hobo Hoss x Kansas Jewell

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