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UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > UKC Free Classifieds > Coonhound Classifieds > Redbones: Stud Dog and Kennel Promotion > Over 15 Years of My Fireball Line.
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thecoondawg76
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

GRNITECH GRCH'PR' Fireballs Little Hattie

I actually had the pleasure of seeing this hound grow up. She was there again one of those belly up no pull tree dogs. For all those that like black muzzles she sure had one. I actually am planning on breeding my female within the next 2 years or so to a stud that goes back to her so that would probably fit right in with your program, Calamity in Ca. If you haven't figured it out by now I plan on breeding this female and some of her best offspring alot to share this close Fireball blood with as many as possible. I truly believe this old dog can still help us out plenty today, as much as ever, and hopefully produce us a UKC World Champion. I want dogs that are built well so I can hunt them at 9 and 10, etc.. and still win but the main thing I am trying to do is producing some hounds that at the least are consistant winners and at best World Hunt winners. What I am saying I breed for hunt and if they come out looking good to then that's just a plus.

Last edited by thecoondawg76 on 03-19-2010 at 03:29 PM

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Old Post 03-19-2010 03:10 PM
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thecoondawg76
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Swing Red Rock

Redpower yeah that would be interesting to see along with Timber Chopper, might have already done one on him though I don't know for sure? Rock is kind of one of those dogs that produced but like so many it was so far back I wasn't even born at the time they were going. So really I only know what I can learn from others. Of course at this point Fireball has been around long enough I think you would be surprised at all the stuff that came out of him. Like Rock and Timber Chopper, Fireball was one of those dogs that are what I think of as a true reproducer. Not only did he produce well (#1 producing of all time) but his childern, grandchildern, greatgrandchildern also produced well. To me that is a real producer and the only way to know that is time.

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Old Post 03-19-2010 03:20 PM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

the picture of the old dog treeing with his left foot on the tree was taken about his 11th or 12th year. Prior to this, he always treed up on the tree, belly rubbing and looking straight up the tree. I think " old Arthur " was working on him in his later years.

When the old dog was just short of two years old, I purchased Browns Ramblin Dixie and line bred them. She had Ramblin Red Ace, top and bottom, three times in her Ped. This complimented the Timber Chopper blood in his mother, Mable. From this litter there were 6 pups, one died, leaving 4 females and 1 male. All of these pups finished into very good coondogs. This is where Nt. Ch. Penney came from. She was an outstanding little tree dog. Nothing could take her off the tree. She was good natured, we trained many pups with her. She was like her daddy, when turned loose, she had but one thought on her mind, find Mr. Coon and tree him. She also was very straight on coons. She was 12 years old when she passed, two months after her daddy passed. Daughter Coochie reminded me so much of her. Cootchie was the only pup out of a litter of 14 that lived. We raised her from day 1 by hand. Rosemary took care of her like a baby. It seemed that all the pups we raised were natural tree dogs. It has been a pleasure hunting this line of dogs, they made me so proud of them and are still doing the job the way I like. We hunted Nite Ch. Billy Bob last night. He is bred the same as Bunny, a Grandson of the old dog. We're going again tonight, the Good Lord willing. You say, how did they tree, normally started at an early age and were outstanding tree dogs.

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Old Post 03-19-2010 03:51 PM
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jbiggert
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Registered: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 263

okreds

JUST WOULD LIKE TO SAY DONT FORGET TWO PEOPLE THAT ARE THE MOST TWISTER LOVERS OF THE TIME.......AND STILL HAVE IT.. T. J. AND THE MAN HIMSELF TIM THE MAN BIG DADDY.IF NOT FOR THESE TWO THERE WOULD BE A COUPLE LESS GRANDS OUT OF OLD TWISTER...

BIG DADDY.......................AH... AH... AH... AH.. AH.. AH.. AH..... CANT STOP...AH..AH..AH.......LOVE YOU ALLLLL HAVE FUN ..........................
NIGHTY NITE....JOHNBOY.

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John Biggert

Males

1) Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red - (Semen) (Gr. Nt. Yellow River Rocky X Nt. Ch. Gr. F Grw. Maggie)

2) Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Red Cloud - 4 Years Old (Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. To The Max X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

3) Nighty Nite T - (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight After Shock X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

Females

1) Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann - 9 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Steps Little Pepper X Gr. Nt. Ch. Nighty Nite Moonlight Kate)

2) Gr. Ch. Nighty Nite Little Red Sky - 3 Years Old (Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Outlaw Red Moon X Gr. Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Moonlight Pepper Ann)

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Old Post 03-20-2010 02:03 AM
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thecoondawg76
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Treeing

Well I talked to Harry about this a long time ago now, he to seemed to think that the belly up treeing came from Ace (another one from the past historical list). My bet would be that would be the place if you both thought the same thing. Well my old Ginger dog always had one foot by the time I got to her but two if you saw her pretty quick but most of the time one foot. Of course, I haven't really thought about it until now. She did get hit by a car right after I got her and her leg never was right after that she swam all sideways becuase of that but I think she was just a one foot dog. Now old Twister I guess about the only photo I've ever seen of him was this one on here and one with him, penny and one other dog together, they were belly up. I don't suppose you have one of him by himself when he was younger do you? I would really like to see that one.

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Old Post 03-20-2010 03:13 AM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

I'm sorry. The only pictures we have of old Twister are those duplicated by others and sent to us. Our home burned in December, 2004, and we lost everything we had. The picture you refer to of Twister, Penney and the other dog, was Ace, Penneys litter mate brother. Ace was a bawl mouth track dog, extremely fast track dog, with a squal mouth on tree. Very few dogs could run with him on a track. Donald Peterson owned him ( the same Peterson that owned Petersons Ill. Red Bud ). Ace produced Ewings Leonie, which wound up with three legs. She could drive a track faster than most four legged dogs. She started treeing at 5 months old, by herself. At 5 to 6 months old, she could strike and move a track and tree like she was 4 years old. Ewing bred her to Old Twister and she was full of pups when his Mother ran over her. They rushed her to the Vet to taks the pups that were mature but wound up losing the pups as well as Leonie. Mr. Ewing now hunts a grand daughter of the Old Dog. I think she is a Nite Ch.

There may be some one out there that has a picture of Old Twister when he was younger. If so, please reproduce and put it on this post for Steve.

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" Why is it that our children can't read the Bible in school, but they can in prison? "

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Old Post 03-20-2010 06:50 PM
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thecoondawg76
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

I'm sorry

Wow, I had no idea. Like I've said I've been out of things a while. Boy I sure hate that, if I'd a known I'd never even brought it up. I know you sure lost alot of memories in that. I haven't had that happen to me but it happened to my dad twice. Once a little before he was born in which all our family history/ Bible and stuff was lost. Then when he was young a little after that, in which his mother, my grandmother past away. Just figured I'd look on here to see if you had a picture before I went to church. Maybe someone will have one that we both could enjoy. If not at least we tried.

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Old Post 03-21-2010 02:52 PM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Re: Swing Red Rock

quote:
Originally posted by thecoondawg76
Redpower yeah that would be interesting to see along with Timber Chopper, might have already done one on him though I don't know for sure? Rock is kind of one of those dogs that produced but like so many it was so far back I wasn't even born at the time they were going. So really I only know what I can learn from others. Of course at this point Fireball has been around long enough I think you would be surprised at all the stuff that came out of him. Like Rock and Timber Chopper, Fireball was one of those dogs that are what I think of as a true reproducer. Not only did he produce well (#1 producing of all time) but his childern, grandchildern, greatgrandchildern also produced well. To me that is a real producer and the only way to know that is time.


Steve,

what's more important than numbers to me is the percentage of reproduction from a proven producer. Yes, Fire Ball was a great reproducer, but Rocky and Twister were much better reproducers than their daddy. Given the same number of pups from Fire Ball, Rocky would have produced 67 titled dogs. For Twister, 77 titled dogs. The numbers prove that Joe did a much better job of marketing Fire Ball than Harry or I did ours. Very few Redbone breeders pay much attention to the percentages. It's not the dog that impresses but how well we like the owner. Of course this doesn't apply to all Redbone owners, but way too many. We've opened up a can of worms here and there will be some response to what I've stated, but that's the way I feel. So, load up and let me have it.

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" Why is it that our children can't read the Bible in school, but they can in prison? "

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Old Post 03-21-2010 05:39 PM
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redpower
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: arkansas
Posts: 1136

Percentage

I would go with the % myself. I was just wanting to see how the different dogs or lines of dogs would go back or come down from Swind Red Rock since I am not that knowledgable on them.

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Old Post 03-21-2010 05:56 PM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Re: Percentage

quote:
Originally posted by redpower
I would go with the % myself. I was just wanting to see how the different dogs or lines of dogs would go back or come down from Swind Red Rock since I am not that knowledgable on them.


Redpower,

I have no idea how many pups Swing Red Rock produced. Probably Mitchel Bennett or Glen Garrett could answer your question. I would say that not very many females were bred to Rock. It's a shame. He made a great impact on the Redbone breed.

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" Why is it that our children can't read the Bible in school, but they can in prison? "

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Old Post 03-21-2010 06:29 PM
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thecoondawg76
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

In over my head :)

I'm not going to argue either way that's for sure. I respect all of you to much and don't pretend to act as though I know as much about breeding as you all do. Especially, when you consider the years that you guys have on me at this. To me Joe would be the one to do that, for Fireball. I do know though that Fireball was bred to all kinds of stuff, where as with Twister and Rocky breeding less you could be a little more selective. However, one things for sure like you stated at the rate they produced they would have surpased Fireball in the reproducing pen, for sure, but they still came from him. I can tell you one thing for sure though I would have loved to have more Rocky and Twister pups floating around than there are out there. I really liked what they reproduced, seperately and mixed together, but especially the go power of Twister. For competition from what I seen you couldn't ask for better. To bad Old Rock did have more pups to. Where could we be now if some of the good ones would have produced more pups. Like I stated earlier though so much of the time the good reproducers are gone or close to it before we really know for sure what they were.

Last edited by thecoondawg76 on 03-22-2010 at 04:03 AM

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Old Post 03-22-2010 03:58 AM
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redpower
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: arkansas
Posts: 1136

I am not a breeder. just a lover of honest treeing redbones. I read where I beleive Rodger Hall said that Mr. Bennets dogs still go back to and maybe heavy breed Swing Red Rock. Thats what I am enjoying about this thread, just seeing how Fireball, Twister and Rocky all tie together.

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Old Post 03-22-2010 03:02 PM
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Roger Hall
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Southern, Ohio
Posts: 404

thecoondawg76


This is Nite Ch Katie Kate. Katie is a Grand Daughter to Twister and goes back to Swing Red Rock 20 times in her 7 generation pedigree. She's out of CD and Swing Red Kate. Kate was a littermate sister to Swing Red Ruby that produced the Bunny female.

Someone wanted to know how many pups Rock produced. I seen a UKC report one time that said 75.

Roger

Last edited by Roger Hall on 04-19-2012 at 03:08 PM

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Old Post 03-22-2010 03:37 PM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

like you, I have a deep respect for Joe Melton. He with Fireball woke up the redbone people. Yes, he did breed to several lesser redbone females. If an owner had the dollars, joe would breed her. He was trying to make some money while the dog was hot. I don't blame him, I too did some of this and probably, Harry did the same thing. Some times we got surprised when a good little dog came from some of these crosses. I hunted with a little Cry Baby female that would not get out of your light. The only thing I ever seen her show an interest in was a toad frog. From there on, I called her Frog Dog. She got loose and tied up with the Ace dog of Petersons. From this cross came the Leonie female that I refered to earlier. I gave this pup no chance at all but to my surprise, she made an outstanding coon dog. I do think that breeders today are more selective than they used to be, some of them. On the other hand, you have some that are offering free stud service. If she is in heat, bring her on. I wonder what others may think of this practice? Let's talk about it on here.

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Old Post 03-22-2010 03:47 PM
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redpower
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Registered: Dec 2008
Location: arkansas
Posts: 1136

I breed a female to my nitech treetalkin tater just because aman keep begging me to. The female would run a track and tree if she didnt have to get in water up to her belly. Out of that cross i got two of the earliest starting pups i have ever had and made good dogs. My Sister female is out of a female out that cross. You just never know till you try something. Royce Taylor advertised free stud sevice to any female that could tree acoon and my Sister female fit that discription. She had eleven pups out of that cross and everybody that got apup is well satisfied. I will pobably make that same cross again in a yror so after I seen the final results.

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Old Post 03-22-2010 04:09 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Sounds good to me.

I had never seen a free stud fee before I had the internet and got on here. My first thought was what in the world are they doing that for. I mean I'm not in this to make a killing but as you well know it cost money to keep up good hounds and promote them in the hunts. Good solid competition bred pups and stud fees just helps some, to offset the $ being spent. I guess that is up to the owner though and I know now what they are doing. Many hope to get there pups numbers up in hopes to reach the all time list. It kills them on the current reproducers list but some our more concerned with the historical list. Now of course there again, any dogs from way back that was bred to alot like Fireball could not be acused of something like this because they were out way before this list thing even came into play. That's fine for them but not something I'm going to do. To me that's just asking to have a bunch of pups that very likely won't do anything and hurt the breed. I and others are trying to improve the breed not win by sheer numbers. I've seen that argued on here to. But I think and this is just my opinion if you have a top dog, barring the buddy system getting you at an RQE, you have just as much a chance as anyone else. I guess someday if I start rolling in the $ then I might give away good bred pups to hunters and kids but I know one thing for sure you can bet you won't see a free stud fee from me, if I've spent my time and money on a top hound. Well not unless you have a female I really like.

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Old Post 03-23-2010 01:14 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Hello Mr.Hall

I don't think I've had the pleasure of meeting you either. I am begining to understand though why it is that your hounds seem to have done so well eventhough the newer dogs of your line I don't really know. In some ways we appear to be running simular blood. I tell you at this point there are getting to be a few females that I would like to set up a hunt and see go. Your Katie Kate female is one of those. With all the Rock that her, Ellie Mae, and Bunny are running these would definately be towards the top of my list of "new" blood to see go. Need to save up some money though. Got some crosses I'm doing myself and then I plan on checking into some others for future possiblities and possible different directions.

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Old Post 03-24-2010 03:10 AM
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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Pup Pics

Well my wife finally found her camera again so here are some pics of the pups I took tonight/ this morning.
Sure glad I'm off for Spring Break. Hopefully I'll have some pics from a hunt on here in the next few days. I've been so busy working on my place I haven't had time to hunt or fish yet.

Last edited by thecoondawg76 on 04-01-2011 at 06:55 PM

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Old Post 03-24-2010 06:19 AM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

that is a good looking bunch of pups, so fat and shiny. They have been well cared for. Good luck with them.

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" Why is it that our children can't read the Bible in school, but they can in prison? "

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Old Post 03-24-2010 03:22 PM
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BIGCASTLEDAWGS
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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 19374

NICE PUPS!

They are Great looking! What nice houndy heads... hope they do you all proud. THis thread has been interesting reading... keep up the great work, everyone, and keep caring about your breed!

HappyHunting, Breeding and PupRaising! Heather

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Old Post 03-24-2010 04:16 PM
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thecoondawg76
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Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Thanks

I breeding for hunting dogs but I want them built well enough to be able to hunt hard when they are old. Part of that philosophy also goes into raising pups. I take excellent care of moma so she can produce plenty of milk. Many people who have seen the mom say they have never seen a dog look so good with pups on her. Then I feed the pups good food and plenty of it so they can reach their full potential. Of course shots regular wormings etc.. go into all that also. If I'm going to take the time and money to breed excellent pups, then you can guarantee I'm going to spend the time taking excellent care of them. I've been busying working so I still don't have any new pics but I've built a 20x12 shed and alot of fence so far. Got to go back to teaching tommorrow so I'll see what chances I get this week.

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Old Post 03-28-2010 07:13 PM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

we made a trip up to Russ Jones house and picked up three pups, two females and a male, out of Bunny. These sure are good looking pups. We will try to keep folks updated on their progress on this thread. They will be four months old on April 12th. So far, they have made themselves right at home here. The male is a big pup with lots of leg under him, he is going to be a big dog. They all have great ears, reaching out past their nose. We are looking forward to getting them in the woods every day and watch them mature. We will be showing them a live coon in about a month. We wonder how they will respond to that? We also have them on the bench every day. Isn't it great to be alive and in AMERICA.

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" Why is it that our children can't read the Bible in school, but they can in prison? "

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Old Post 03-30-2010 01:21 PM
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okreds
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

we promised Russ that if there should be one or all that we would talk to him first. They already show their independent way, paying no attention to each other. If they see or smell something, they go and check it out. Doesn't matter if another goes with them or not. Will talk with Russ and we will see what the future holds for these pups. I've got you in mind.

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Old Post 03-31-2010 02:22 PM
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thecoondawg76
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Now that I've got Lil Red's background figured out back to my post. :)

That's fine I understand but if something becomes availible I would sure take care of it and push it in the hunts. Found this in my stash of pics, Twister, Penny and Ace.

Last edited by thecoondawg76 on 12-20-2017 at 04:08 AM

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Old Post 04-03-2010 06:57 AM
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okreds
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Location: martinsville, il.
Posts: 1468

Steve,

we took the male pup ( Ok Reds Cedar Creek Twister ) hunting with Billy Bob Thursday night. Keep in mind, he will be 4 months old April 12th. On the first dump, Billy came back 2 or 3 times to get the pup to go with him. Also, keep in mind that we had Rosemarys son and his family with us, three children, Albert and his wife. The pup paid no attention to the kids, he would drift out into the corn stubble and into the edge of the woods, just looking and smelling around. Billy went north and struck, almost out of hearing. We loaded the pup up and went to him, he was treed and had the coon. The pup went to the tree and just looked and smelled around. We then loaded up and went south and turned loose on top of the hill. Again, Billy came in a couple of times and the pup went with him down into the creek bottom. Billy went further south and struck and treed. Rosemary and family, 6 in all went to him. That pup again, paid no attention to anybody, and repeatedly would climb on the tree along side of Billy and smell and look up. He did not open. He was never intimidated, or scared of anything. He reminded me so much of the old Twister dog when he was a little pup. This pup has a mind and uses it. I really like what I see out of him so far. Oh, bye the way, Billy had a coon on the second tree as well.

__________________
Ed And Rosemary Brown

" Why is it that our children can't read the Bible in school, but they can in prison? "

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