Registered: May 2007
Location: White Oak TX.
Posts: 62

I had in mind of trying to bring back the true honest coonhound to the top. It's a shame that a world renown breeder that has numerous world reknown dogs from his kennel would not suggest for new hunters to competition hunt. As far as aggressive dogs or cheating handlers, one warning and then a lifetime ban. Period, no questions asked. Winning hunts with silent mouth dogs, or slick trees is not the definition of a true coonhound.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I ain't hunted with a silent mouth dog in a long , long time !! But I would come near saying a tight mouth dog is more honest then ole babble off the snap all night long but that's just me.



Maybe the meetooers just don't like the tighter mouth dogs because ole cover me quick can't find them till its to late.



Tar

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

Mr. Outlaw, what you are indicating is just your personal likes in a dog. You can not propose to speak for all the hunters in defining an honest dog. What is dishonest about a certain dog that is silent that beats your open trailing dogs? How can you say that silent dogs are dishonest? A silent dog must find a coon track, run that track and tree the coon, just like any open mouth dog. If you are getting beat by silent dogs babblers or any other fault a dog may have in your mind, you just need a better dog on your lead. I have owned some good silent trailing dogs and some better open trailing dogs. Guess which ones could beat the other, it was always the one with more coon treeing ability, had nothing to do with being silent or open trailing. I prefer an open trailing dog, but would hunt a silent dog if it's good enough. I just don't understand why people blame everything in the world for why their dog got beat. It's real simple, either you or your dog didn't do enough to win. A dog that beats you is just a better dog, at least it was that night. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: May 2007
Location: White Oak TX.
Posts: 62

What I am saying is people have bred hounds to try to win hunts. A true honest coonhound is open trailing and takes tracks as they come to him. They dont run 2 miles in a straight run to get treed. I believe the HTX is the honest definition of a coonhound. There is a rule in place for babbling dogs, I believe its scratched on the third drop. I have been on hunts with some hall of fame dogs and they were true coonhounds.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: White Oak TX.
Posts: 62

I owned a hound that placed in the PKC World Hunt...I sold him for 1 reason, he slick treed too much. Hell of a hound but not a true honest coonhound. I hunted many nights with a top 20 UKC World Hunt hound and trained many dogs with him, he was a true coonhound so yes I know the difference, maybe you need to visit with the older breeders and get their opinions of what's happened to real coonhounds. I think you will be suprised.

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Registered: May 2007
Location: White Oak TX.
Posts: 62

Have you ever been on a hunt and only 1 dog could strike and tree a coon?? I have, it's called having a good nose, and this is what I'm talking about. The day of the cold to medium nose dog is about gone. To me, a dog that can take a cold to medium track, work it out, warm it up, and tree it is a true coonhound. I have seen dogs that were layup artist but couldnt run a feeding track to save their life. It's sad to see these qualities dwindle away

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

Mr, Outlaw, I hear what you are saying loud and clear, I agree in part as I have high standards regarding the dogs I hunt. I love the sport, it's my main hobby and I can hunt and appreciate a real coondogs. I was just being honest in my posts, we all have standards of what we want in a coondogs, but those are just our standards, not everyone sees things our way. I don't care what someone else hunts, if they like it that's the way it should be. What I can not do is tell them they are wrong or that their digs are not true coondogs, just because their digs do not fit my mold of a true coondogs. I like an open trailing bawl mouth track with a good changeover to a hard chop when treed. Now if the dog is a sure enough coondogs I will overlook some things. Ability is way more important to me than the digs style, a good dog makes you like it. We already have the means to hunt the dogs we like and that is by ourselves or with friends who share the same values that we have. I have had a couple of silent coondogs that were absolutely top coondogs, nothing dishonest about those dogs. Currently hunting some top coonhunts that are open trailing dogs and definitely prefer this kind of dog, but let me find a top silent dig and I would be proud to own it. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Dave since I know who he is I understand him better all these things I been telling everybody about the past he lived it also. Today is not even a close comparison.



Tar

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

quote:

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Originally posted by W.O. Outlaw
Have you ever been on a hunt and only 1 dog could strike and tree a coon?? I have, it's called having a good nose, and this is what I'm talking about. The day of the cold to medium nose dog is about gone. To me, a dog that can take a cold to medium track, work it out, warm it up, and tree it is a true coonhound. I have seen dogs that were layup artist but couldnt run a feeding track to save their life. It's sad to see these qualities dwindle away

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

You know that I am old school and I agree that a lot of today's dogs just aren't what I would own and hunt. I love a cold nosed work the track up and tree with the meat type dog, we own 2 of this type at the present time. I also, know some of the younger guys who don't like this type of dog. When I was young and impressionable we did not have many coons in these mountains, it took the kind of dog described to tree these old mountain coons. Today we have a fair, thin not thick coon population and these hotter nosed digs of today manage to tree coon on a regular basis. The younger guys love this type of dog, they don't like the cold nosed type dog, they really aren't interested in hearing good dog work, they just want to tree a coon [ impatient ]. I know what Mr. Outlaw is trying to say, us older guys have a way different standard of what true coondogs are than our younger hunters. I am saying that whatever standard one has, it's just our standard and not everyone else's standard. We think we are right, the young guns think they are right. Our true coondog probably isn't their true coondogs, I am just glad that there are still some of the type of dogs I like and enjoy still around. Tim Osborne has a really good line of dogs that should suit most of us old timers. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

May not be funny but Tim is an old timer like us but with our standreds if we were all young again we might change these young folks standreds they would have to if they wanted to win lol.



Y'all don't get excited now lol.


Tar

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5630

Yes, Tim is one of us old timers, I am just glad that we still have breeders like Tim Osborne breeding the type of dogs that suit us old timers. My hunting partner who is 81 years old and the hardest hunting coonhunters I have ever seen is hunting a dog out of my old dog, a grandpup to Tim's Hardwood Bean dog. Most coon hunters would be shocked to actually know the number of coons we have treed with these dogs. They would think we were hunting up North and not in these Tennessee mountains. Anyone looking for the type of dog that suits us old timers , should contact Tim Osborne in North Carolina and get them some of his bloodline. Early starting, coon crazy, almost naturally straight and super accurate tree dogs with good noses. Stand up on their hind legs winding a coon several hundred yards away while still on the lead, good mouth hard tree dogs. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 02-18-2019 at 02:33 AM

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

quote:

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Originally posted by W.O. Outlaw
The day of the cold to medium nose dog is about gone. To me, a dog that can take a cold to medium track, work it out, warm it up, and tree it is a true coonhound. I have seen dogs that were layup artist but couldnt run a feeding track to save their life. It's sad to see these qualities dwindle away

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Registered: May 2007
Location: White Oak TX.
Posts: 62

To get a tree, you need a track. If you only want a tree then hunt a cur dog.

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Registered: May 2010
Location:
Posts: 1791

If you wanna see an honest strike not babbling or silent , not chop or cur dog mouth but a big old bawl mouth hound that can run a track then go see the one I sold to Johnny Dalton at Valley Creek . But be prepared to go for a walk ........ Coondog !

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Registered: Sep 2016
Location: NC
Posts: 110

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Pullen
If you wanna see an honest strike not babbling or silent , not chop or cur dog mouth but a big old bawl mouth hound that can run a track then go see the one I sold to Johnny Dalton at Valley Creek . But be prepared to go for a walk ........ Coondog !

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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: Willard, Kentucky
Posts: 1198

quote:

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Originally posted by W.O. Outlaw
I believe the HTX is the honest definition of a coonhound.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1074

I admire the ability to run a track as much as anybody, but here's a two part question for the peanut gallery:
Do we define success as treeing the most coons, and does a dog really even need to be an exceptional track dog anymore?
Here's my point- years ago, there might be one coon in a section, and you needed a dog that was able to tree it. It didn't really matter if the coon had stirred two hours earlier, had crossed water, fed through a cornfield, whatever. To be successful, you needed to be able to produce that coon.
But there's so many of them these days, I'd almost argue that a dog that doesn't work that tough track out will be more successful because there's always an easy one, always a hot one, just a little farther in.
If the goal is listening to a dog work, or admiring his ability to trail, that's fine, but if it's treeing coons, then one could argue that breeding for colder noses and trailing ability is counterintuitive.

Last edited by Cory Highfill on 02-18-2019 at 12:29 PM

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

The part of the country your in has a whole lot to do with track, track in these North Georgia Mountains and ridges is of utmost importance.
You can see certain strains of dogs doing well in parts of the country, that absolutely give me cold chills thinking i might hunt them here....lol Firm believer in track dogs that tree........

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