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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

Re: Breeders

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I want to say that I truly appreciate ALL of the dedicated breeders accross our great nation. Breeders that have committed many years and many dollars trying to breed a superior line of coon dogs. I truly respect their efforts, without them we would NEVER have the number if good dogs we have today. A dedicated breeder may NOT want to cross breed with another breed of hound and spend the time culling to get consistency in the offspring. I only think that one should cross breed to get immediate results with maybe a few superior pups for ones own use as hunting dogs. Cross breeding is definitely not for everyone, non should it be. Cross breeding is just one tool available , for those with a purebred line of dogs that produce consistent coon dogs with the traits you desire, cross breeding would be the last thing you would want. Dave


Good post Dave...👍

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Old Post 12-14-2019 01:13 PM
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Hittman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 170

I totally support my dad in this. All though iam all walker dog man. But ever since UKC created the X bred it's made me want to try it. I have hunt with nice hounds of all breeds. My grandpa owned one of the nicest English dogs I have ever hunted with. He was swamp rooster bred. I also like the leporad hounds. Recently I hunted with a good friends X breed red dog. He was a really nice hound. I think the x bred will help coonhunting.

Dad has really been studying this stuff and will be making a cross on his NITECH gyp soon.

My goals is to take what I have of my dads blood and buy some nice bred walker gyps as pups. I have some things in mind just have to take my time and study my crosses.

I have even been studying some X bred crosses for the future and learning who has what blood.

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Old Post 12-14-2019 06:22 PM
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DL NH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 249

Nice to see the father and son teams and those that go into the 3rd generation and beyond. Seems to me it's not all that common to see these days in the hunting hound sports.

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Old Post 12-14-2019 06:29 PM
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Hittman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Thackerville Ok
Posts: 170

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
Nice to see the father and son teams and those that go into the 3rd generation and beyond. Seems to me it's not all that common to see these days in the hunting hound sports.


Yes sir I have learned everything I know about hounds and still learning. Iam a 3rd generation coonhunter. My papa started it all. We walked a many miles behind him.

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Old Post 12-14-2019 07:04 PM
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Chuck Allen
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1145

I am sold on it for sure , but the crosses got to be right , temperment , handling , and of course track and tree etc. went to the Western Wall tonight , treed 2 and caught a big 25 lb hard running Boar Coon on the ground.

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Old Post 12-15-2019 10:33 AM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1327

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Tarbaby, if your current breeding plan isn't working then you should try something different. It is a smart move on your part. So what have you been doing in the past that didn't work for you? What was your breeding plan/strategy that didn't work?

I have been trying for 25 years to produce nice pups. I have tried breeding "coondog to coondog". I have tried breeding "winner to winner". I even tried breeding a nice Redbone female to Million $ Elmo. I have tried them all but none of them alone worked for me. I have found that I have better success by combining all of the breeding practices together. It is a lot more dificult but works better in the end.
But a big problem with breeding competition dogs is that the standard keeps changing. We have gone from track dogs to tree dogs. We have gone from accuracy to speed to accuracy. We have gone from pack dogs to independent dogs. We have gone from close hunters to deep hunters. About the time that you get your traits fixed, the standard changes.
Good luck with your crossbreeding but that is what it is, not "hybrid vigor". You are X breeding to get desired traits. You could care less about hybrid vigor.




So are you responsible for the Elmo breeding or is Shane?

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Old Post 12-21-2019 12:11 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17915

If you know anything about me then you would know that I sure didn't keep it a secret when I bred my female to Elmo. David Carr also let everyone that would listen know. Apparently it is a little known fact but there was a Redbone female in the ancestery of a well known walker line and he wanted to try to replicate it. Where do you think that gorgeous red head comes from. Some think that x breeding is something new but it isn't. It has been tried since the very beginning but with very limited success. Anyway I had to single register the pups as Redbones because there was no x bred at the time. There was a loophole that let you PKC single register pups as long as they "met the breed standard". The PKC Redbone men pitched such a fit that PKC came up with their X bred program. But after all of that not one of the pups turned out to be much. I learned my lesson from that. I have tried about every breeding practice and finally settled on what I go by today. It has been 25 yrs of trial and error.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 12-21-2019 at 12:56 AM

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Old Post 12-21-2019 12:53 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 930

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Tarbaby, if your current breeding plan isn't working then you should try something different. It is a smart move on your part. So what have you been doing in the past that didn't work for you? What was your breeding plan/strategy that didn't work?

I have been trying for 25 years to produce nice pups. I have tried breeding "coondog to coondog". I have tried breeding "winner to winner". I even tried breeding a nice Redbone female to Million $ Elmo. I have tried them all but none of them alone worked for me. I have found that I have better success by combining all of the breeding practices together. It is a lot more dificult but works better in the end.
But a big problem with breeding competition dogs is that the standard keeps changing. We have gone from track dogs to tree dogs. We have gone from accuracy to speed to accuracy. We have gone from pack dogs to independent dogs. We have gone from close hunters to deep hunters. About the time that you get your traits fixed, the standard changes.
Good luck with your crossbreeding but that is what it is, not "hybrid vigor". You are X breeding to get desired traits. You could care less about hybrid vigor.



It seems that the hunting standard for competition coon dogs should be set and not changed...the standard should be created so that the best type of coon dog will be bred...the best coon dog should be the same whether it is a pleasure hound or a competition hound...

When this is set without deviation then breeders like you can breed consistency into your dogs...

If the dogs get too hot nosed...reel in the breeding program and not change the standard to fix the hot nosed dog...

If the nose gets too cold reel in the cold nose with the breeding programs and not change the standard to accommodate the cold nose...otherwise how can anyone breed consistency in a breeding program? Doesn’t make sense...tweaking the dogs is a lot easier than chasing a standard that changes to accommodate a few folks at that particular time...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 12-21-2019 03:27 AM
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