Registered: Dec 2010
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Posts: 1202

quote:

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Originally posted by mr taylor
Originally posted by shadinc
Some of it is in training now, because of the tree happy dogs we're breeding. I'm not upset with anyone for doing this. I've followed both kinds. No tree and all tree. Give me the tree dog. At least I can catch him and go home. I'm partly responsible for this. I always bred to the best tree dog available. I was vice president of my eight grade class in 1956.
you said it was both training and breeding yesterday and we agreed on another thread ..

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3369

If the rules ever change to handle a slick tree like a possum tree, you'll see a great reduction in slick treeing dogs.

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If stopping dogs from slick treeing was just a matter of training, then I have a question. Why wouldn't at least 5 guys know how to break a dog from doing it and have a line at their front door about a mile long. Not to mention a big bank account.

Shad hit the nail on the head. Our dogs are a product of the rules in the game we play. If we designed rules that only silent dogs would win what do you think would happen. The silent dogs would win then get bred and over time we would have silent dogs.

Last edited by on 02-07-2016 at 06:15 PM

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
If stopping dogs from slick treeing was just a matter of training, then I have a question. Why wouldn't at least 5 guys know how to break a dog from doing it and have a line at their front door about a mile long. Not to mention a big bank account.

Shad hit the nail on the head. Our dogs are a product of the rules in the game we play. If we designed rules that only silent dogs would win what do you think would happen. The silent dogs would win then get bred and over time we would have silent dogs.

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C.JONES

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

once you have this prob is hard to break!! very hard! most these dogs don't and want run a cold track and finish it! the desire is breed out most a few still left I hope! cause a lot are being breed! I had to edit! People take and breed just for pups$$$$ and not for Balance in dogs! take bell prob couldn't find her food pan if not tied up by it! breed and just to sell pups!jmo

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C.JONES

Last edited by CHEWBACH on 02-07-2016 at 06:49 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
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quote:

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Originally posted by OldRook
Where did it start in the Walker breed and why?

Thoughts??

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Registered: Aug 2015
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Interesting stuff guys.

Elvis- I had a hound direct off of old Harry and a son and a grandson off a dog called Gibsons Rowdy off of old Harry. Loved them and rarely looked up a blank.. Saw some others that did occasionally. But not to the level I have seen in the couple of hunts I've attended in the last year. Whole other level

Last edited by OldRook on 02-07-2016 at 07:58 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
Old Rowdy was the first grand nite champion off Harry.
Jim Gibson from Elkhart Indiana owned him.

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Registered: Aug 2015
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Yeah he threw a lot of good hounds here. And he was bred to some great bitches in Goshen IN. That was my exposure to him. Would give a left nut for the make dog I had off of him

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Extreme Tree dog bred to Extreme Tree dog =?
Now do this for 20 yrs. LOL

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Coal Country, WV.
Posts: 165

quote:

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Originally posted by msinc
I believe that "putting up with it" is about half terrain related and the other half guys that just slap don't have a clue how to deal with it. You can best believe there are fewer slick treeing dogs in places like West Virginia or Kentucky...hike those mountains night after night to go to a slick tree??? I don't think so, they may have the same number of dogs that try it but I'd bet those type dogs don't stay around there.
Most guys are so happy to have a dog tree they will not correct the dog for fear they will "ruin it"...what good is it slick treeing???
Many don't believe one of the main reasons dogs slick tree...they are not running a coon to start with, so how are you going to see one??
Last night we had a 7 year old dog take off by itself on a track, run 500 or so yards to tree slick. The other three dogs were not interested. I don't know what this dog ran, but I know it wasn't a coon, it didn't climb and it wasn't no ghost either!!! This dog was not a walker and was a grand nite champion.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by WVBLUEBOY
+1
If I have to top out 4 or 5 mountains to only look at tree bark & limbs that I could have seen at the bottom of those mountains, on that 6th trip something with hair on it at the top of that mountain is getting some hot lead in its rump.

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Last edited by msinc on 02-08-2016 at 05:31 PM

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 6539

I have a dog that I am hunting now that went through a period of slick treeing. This same dog started out very accurate. I paid close attention to what was going on. Pulling her off a tree and sending her on would not have corrected her problem.

The woods I was hunting was thick with flying squirrels. In fact, the squirrels would run down the tree above the dogs head and whistle at them. I fixed her problem by breaking her off squirrels.

I guess it would have been easier to give up on her and try another dog, but that isn't who i am.

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Registered: Aug 2015
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I have hunted in Mid and North Mi a number of times. I have seen flying squirrels concentrated in areas at times that I would hate to hazard a guess at the numbers. Can understand what you just remarked on. A dog not used to it could easily have problems.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: Mo
Posts: 221

Imo it is whether your dog has enough nose to locate the body of the coon. Silent or not those type tree coons and are able to drift out locate without standing on there head. But all go through phases of empty treeing from what I've seen. Most generally leaning trees. Some don't like to bark in and then just pick a tree. I used to think the dog really was convinced it had a coon but if they were accurate once before they know there slick most generally. The handler has to do his part as well. Including hunting spots. I often thought of it like this to tell if a dog has a nose or not. If it has to put its nose in the dirt to move a track I doubt it has a very good nose. I've hunted this type before they tree coons to but not nearly as fast and not as many.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

About 12 yrs or so ago I took Fryar's Liza Jane to to breed to a certain stud who comes from a line known for there tree power, i got caught up in the hype and thought i was getting left behind.LOL It was like nothing i had ever seen, the pups were different then i had ever raised, at 2 to 3 months the whole litter would tree on a coon hide and hard.(still have video)
As they matured there were some very good dogs came out of that litter, but i could see they were different, had to be treed to be happy, nothing moving gonna get treed on a den or whatever. Thick coons you were beat! But in these Mtns. not for me. I started thinking this bloodline is in everything out there and people are breeding to other tree dogs the same way, everytime you make a cross and something is added something slips to the back, "TREE plus Tree moved Track to the back".
I went the opposite direction at that point and we are happy with what we have.
16 Years with the same line of dogs, Coma x Lipper crosses.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

The other issue I see at the limited number of hunts I've been to is Automatic Strike Dogs!!!!!! The honest strike dog is always sitting in the last spot for strike points. And even if your dog splits off gets to itself. You still have to tree an extra coon to win. JMO though. Not worth much.

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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 572

I wouldn't call a dog that always gets last strike a honest strike dog. I'd call it a poor strike dog. There are dogs that use their mouth a lot that are honest and do not just babble. I call them excellent strike dogs. These dogs don't always get first strike but rarely get last.

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Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
For me it was hickory nut harry.
A lot of it was my own fault im sure. I didnt realize that with his pups I no longer had to beg them to tree, but had to figure out how to keep them from treeing too much.

I still see a lot of guys go in to that pup and rib slap him and blow the reeds out of a squaller and get the pup so intoxicated with treeing that its all it wants to do.
You cant do that with most lines today or you will forever have a sore neck and a dead light from shining all those trees.

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
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quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
I have a dog that I am hunting now that went through a period of slick treeing. This same dog started out very accurate. I paid close attention to what was going on. Pulling her off a tree and sending her on would not have corrected her problem.

The woods I was hunting was thick with flying squirrels. In fact, the squirrels would run down the tree above the dogs head and whistle at them. I fixed her problem by breaking her off squirrels.

I guess it would have been easier to give up on her and try another dog, but that isn't who i am.

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Last edited by msinc on 03-04-2016 at 12:23 PM

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
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quote:

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Originally posted by OldRook
Interesting stuff guys.

Elvis- I had a hound direct off of old Harry and a son and a grandson off a dog called Gibsons Rowdy off of old Harry. Loved them and rarely looked up a blank.. Saw some others that did occasionally. But not to the level I have seen in the couple of hunts I've attended in the last year. Whole other level

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
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quote:

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Originally posted by OldRook
Interesting stuff guys.

Elvis- I had a hound direct off of old Harry and a son and a grandson off a dog called Gibsons Rowdy off of old Harry. Loved them and rarely looked up a blank.. Saw some others that did occasionally. But not to the level I have seen in the couple of hunts I've attended in the last year. Whole other level

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Central Pa
Posts: 1114

My opinion really doesn't matter but when you have guys like Bruce and others seeing a problem with it, then my opinion is it's 90% breeding. They aren't the type of people to fire up a young dog on an obvious slick tree just because they're so excited it's treeing and want to get some pictures.

Now is it simply tree power that's causing the problem? Or tree power without enough brains? Or tree power with little tracking ability or desire to run track? I don't know for sure.

I tend to believe if there was a way to measure intelligence in a dog and you bred that in, you could keep everything else and a lot of other problems would disappear. Most dogs are born with enough nose to get the job done.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: HOWE, INDIANA
Posts: 468

Rock Sacket Jr. is where a lot of it comes from and Nailer not saying he is the only one but a lot of it started from them.

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You got that right Olie for back in the early 90's Lipper and Dohoney's Boone were the going stud dogs and no Lipper slick treeing did you hear about but Boone's pups would start treeing at 5 and 6 months old a friend of mine and I had two 7 months old pups that made 7 trees one night by themselves with no coons seen both dogs got more accurate as they got older but could never be sure if a tree was slick or not until you burned your light out shinning the tree and at that time every one wanted pups out of Boone and I saw many other pups out of Boone tree the first time in the hill with older dogs too much tree and not enough hunt back in those days out of that stock of dogs.

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