Registered: Aug 2015
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Where did it start in the Walker breed and why?

Back in the old days it wasn't nearly as prevalent in my limited opinion. They were (Walkers) just as dominant in the hunts back in the day without it?

Thoughts??

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There's a very big difference in training practices now compared those a few decades ago. Dogs were taught to trail before they treed. Now most dogs are treeing before they work a track

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In the mid 70's Buddy had a real nice Walker from Sabine River Stock. A lot of good things about that dog but would miss a little. Then some crowding billy pups came along and they would miss a little more. I bred a nice down to earth coon dog to Houses Tom Tom in the mid to late 70's. I raised and trained a nice one and his brother went to the NC Mountains and was hunted by old school coon hunters and he turned out a treeing idiot. I know they did't do anything to create it as they were old school and carried an axe. I think Sackett Jr raised the bar on dogs winning and dogs missing. I guess the slick treeing dogs have been around a while. They just weren't talked about and there was no message boards to spread the word. Many just disappeared during the night.

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quote:

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Originally posted by V. Cannon
There's a very big difference in training practices now compared those a few decades ago. Dogs were taught to trail before they treed. Now most dogs are treeing before they work a track

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Here is when I knew we were in trouble with slick treeing.

I am sure some of you have seen this and scratched your heads about it. I have seen it more than I care to.

In the early 80's we hunted dogs together. You would turn a couple loose and be very proud of how they were hunting as they were gone and out of sight. Then is 15, 20 or 30 minutes you would hear one bark and at almost the same time the other one would bark with it and they would be locked down on a tree. No track in all this time. No independence either. Together all this time and when one looks up the other one is right beside it looking up. I saw this over and over again in different young dogs and it made me rethink what line of dogs I wanted to hunt.

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Mr Bruce, We without a doubt was hunting with and around a different type or breed of hound in the 80s because i never really seen the big change until late 90s some and full blown by early 2000s and it looks to be here to stay,the thing is everyone is breeding to what the big name dog in the comp circle is and the most of them are breed to do just like you said and thats were the trailing stopped and all the tree started,its a wonderful world.

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I can tell you that reproducers list ukc has has hurt our hounds. All you need is a tree dawg to make granite. And people get so caught up in that in all breeds. I do not hunt walkers anymore. If I went back to them today I would defiantly go wipeout. Them dogs close zeb again have the meat when they tree. The only walkers I've drew. Maybe 7-8 walkers in the last 5 years I was impressed by. 5 of them were off or grand pups to zeb again. ACCURATE. It's hard to believe but Barry Kiddy told me he just would not miss -zeb again. But you don't get that all grand and them dogs did all there winning in the devil organization where you can win with circle.lol. Thing is slot of cast them dogs wouldn't get treed. Zeb 3 threw 4 world champions and I bet track man had 3 times as many pups. Something to think about.

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Well I've heard 4 but I know of 2 world champs. I know of 3 dee and Jesse Jane. Has there been anymore? Sorry if I got that wrong. I would sure like to know how much $$$ zeb again pups and grand pups gave won in the $$$ hunts.

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Its not just the Walkers !. They are all missing coons stand on their heads . I dont see the other breeds doing much in the hunts at all either . If they were accurate they would be in the winners circle but theyre not ? Ive been with some nice dogs of all breeds but when the coons start rutting they all start missing more for some reason at least thats my experience .

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Maybe I'm just lucky, but I have not had the experience with the slick teeing everyone is hung up on. Don't get me wrong, I have had plenty of slick trees over the years, but just here and there. Even during the winter months up north here, I get very limited den trees. During the rut, 7 out of 10 dens have coon on the outside or your can look in and see at least 1 coon. So far this winter I've only had 2 bad nights. Many will say I'm blowing smoke, but I'm willing to go out any night. I have probably the best hounds I've ever owned in my kennel today.

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quote:

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Originally posted by N Williams
I can tell you that reproducers list ukc has has hurt our hounds. All you need is a tree dawg to make granite. And people get so caught up in that in all breeds. I do not hunt walkers anymore. If I went back to them today I would defiantly go wipeout. Them dogs close zeb again have the meat when they tree. The only walkers I've drew. Maybe 7-8 walkers in the last 5 years I was impressed by. 5 of them were off or grand pups to zeb again. ACCURATE. It's hard to believe but Barry Kiddy told me he just would not miss -zeb again. But you don't get that all grand and them dogs did all there winning in the devil organization where you can win with circle.lol. Thing is slot of cast them dogs wouldn't get treed. Zeb 3 threw 4 world champions and I bet track man had 3 times as many pups. Something to think about.

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Last edited by Grant Noeske on 02-06-2016 at 06:19 PM

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Well that hound is breed real tight wipeout. You would expect it to trail to much and be accurate. I have seen some that had slick treeing problems. I will tell you most if the dogs in her pedigree were deadly accurate.

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Trailing too much is NOT a problem! LOL! I bought her at 15 months expecting exactly what you described of the Wipeout bred dogs. She's in northwestern Illinois and I'm not aware of any other Wipeout bred dogs anywhere in the area. She's not quite as accurate as I expected her to be, but she is definitely action packed and makes things happen pretty quick. I think she's one that is going to keep improving on her accuracy as she ages. She won't just go in and grab trees. She puts her tracking work in, but doesn't always finish it off correctly.

My other gyp that's a grandpup of Rapid River Sockett, Salt Creek Kiss This and Skuna River Fred is more accurate (the mother is pretty accurate and trailed too much when she was young). They are only days apart in age (both will be four in early May) and I would have expected them to operate exactly the opposite of what they do. I think I ended up with the exception to the rule for both lines of dogs (Sackett/Nailor and Wipeout).

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Last edited by Grant Noeske on 02-06-2016 at 07:45 PM

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Dog off zeb again wins the truck hunt tonight. Scored on 2 trees with 2 coons seen.

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Yep. Nate you asked about his offsprings winnings. I have a fairly new set of papers that showed $440,000 not counting that truck. Getting close to $500K

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WOW!! Fifteen posts about slick treeing and not one mention of training. All breeding.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Yep. Nate you asked about his offsprings winnings. I have a fairly new set of papers that showed $440,000 not counting that truck. Getting close to $500K

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
WOW!! Fifteen posts about slick treeing and not one mention of training. All breeding.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
WOW!! Fifteen posts about slick treeing and not one mention of training. All breeding.

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quote:

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Originally posted by N Williams
Let me tell you my opinion because I hear this alot. If no coon is there a dog does not have to bark up a tree. I had rather had a young hound that didn't get treed very often but when they did have a coon as I had one that I had wip off slick trees. Some hounds have locating ability. They know where the coon is. There few and far. People need to breed for that trait.

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After traveling the country some last year I have came to the conclusion that most people just accept a dog treeing slick and they don't care or don't feel they can correct it.

Down here in these swamps it is hard and your better off just not putting up with one doing it. Why?
Because you cannot truthful tell in a short period of time if the coon is there or not. Second is you travel a half mile or so to the thickest part of the swamp you have to really want to train one to send the off the tree there.

Now last spring I was in IN and there I could stop one from slick treeing if it was possible. No Leaves and by the time you got to the tree you pretty much had it figured out.

The best excuse I ever heard to circle a slick tree came from IN. Guy voted to circle cause he couldn't seen the top of the tree. A little brighter light was put in the top of the tree and the guy said that wasn't his light and with his light he couldn't tell if there was a coon up there or not. He even convinced another guy to vote circle also.

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quote:

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Originally posted by OldRook
Where did it start in the Walker breed and why?

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.........Rat Attack....... Why did it start? Because they were winners. They weren't any fun to hunt and sometimes downright embarrasing but you sure could win a bunch of money with them.

And then Mr Kiddy came along.

Where do you think all of the emphasis on independance came from. First there were the slow but accurate hounds. But the only way that you could win with them was to be deep and alone. So that is where we are today.

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I believe that "putting up with it" is about half terrain related and the other half guys that just slap don't have a clue how to deal with it. You can best believe there are fewer slick treeing dogs in places like West Virginia or Kentucky...hike those mountains night after night to go to a slick tree??? I don't think so, they may have the same number of dogs that try it but I'd bet those type dogs don't stay around there.
Most guys are so happy to have a dog tree they will not correct the dog for fear they will "ruin it"...what good is it slick treeing???
Many don't believe one of the main reasons dogs slick tree...they are not running a coon to start with, so how are you going to see one??
Last night we had a 7 year old dog take off by itself on a track, run 500 or so yards to tree slick. The other three dogs were not interested. I don't know what this dog ran, but I know it wasn't a coon, it didn't climb and it wasn't no ghost either!!! This dog was not a walker and was a grand nite champion.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
WOW!! Fifteen posts about slick treeing and not one mention of training. All breeding.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
WOW!! Fifteen posts about slick treeing and not one mention of training. All breeding.

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