Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

First of all I have always bred my dogs tight so I am not bashing anybody. But in the first stages of the building of the all grand pedigree were they used the same dog several times do you think it played a big part in the undersirable traits and health issues we have today ?

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

What health issues are you talking about?

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

Dang yadkintar your up early!!! Sure there is some good came out it! because there is some good females that was and is still being breed! talking REPRODUCERS male and female. breed those two and ya got something! the all grand ped! has some what ruined coon dogs! yes they will tree coon but not what most seasoned coon hunters would consider coon dogs. remember back yrs ago when the first all grand ped was brout forth! cant remember the dog tho! but I did try many! not my type I am a coonhunter first and competition second. if I cant take it alone and tree bunches it no coon dog to me. put with other dogs and they are like inbreed race horses!!not for me! unless they can do same alone as with dogs!! Did you hunt last nite!

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2685

Yadkintar! not sure what you mean about breeding tight. line/inbreed. that I don't or never do. and my dogs are easy to train and easy to put a handle on. enough of that family breeding already in the blood lines. that was put in enough back yrs ago.jmo

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Jim thyroid problems,hip displacement both always been around but if you have a stud that carries it and you double up on it I think it makes it worse. One of our well known Oklahoma coonhunters had a big part of the the all grand start. Chewbach what I mean by tight is there is a certain dog that I like and when I make a cross I make sure he is on both sides of the pedigree for instance this last time I bred my female back to her grandpa the old blood this carries ( old Finley River ) quadrupled up a lot were late bloomers this pup is the same but getting better every time I take him but I know several all grands pedigrees that were made by useing the same dog multiple times to get it if there is a flaw it would put that gene so strong you can't breed it out jmo. Chewbach yes I am up early cutting up fish our Sunday school class is having a fish fry for the super bowl and I am the cook.

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I can hear what your saying but I would like to see some pedigrees your talking about. I just looked at two dogs pedigrees I have here and one is a 4 gen all grand and one is a 3 gen all grand and I don't see the close breeding.

I will post the pkc papers as I don't have the UKC papers copied. I got Mongo about a year ago and I have his winnings up to around $7500 now. His only health issues is his ears are too short. the bird dog came out in him. He is hard headed but so am I.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Bruce Harry was a double bred lipper dog I believe both pedigrees you shown carry lipper on the bottom I hunted dogs for the public when lipper was hot I was tuff back then but not tuff enough to ever double it lol but we didn't have the alpha back the either lol.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2027

I have been under the impression that hounds have very few health issues because they are bred for performance. Therefore the health issues show up and are more blatant then what they would be in a house dog, due to the strenuous and physical demands that are placed on our hounds.

I do agree though tight breeding can result in health issues.

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Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Bois d'Arc, MO.
Posts: 1823

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
I can hear what your saying but I would like to see some pedigrees your talking about. I just looked at two dogs pedigrees I have here and one is a 4 gen all grand and one is a 3 gen all grand and I don't see the close breeding.

I will post the pkc papers as I don't have the UKC papers copied. I got Mongo about a year ago and I have his winnings up to around $7500 now. His only health issues is his ears are too short. the bird dog came out in him. He is hard headed but so am I.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Like I said not bashing but when I made the cross that made my 8 yr old female there were only 3 pups 1 Grntch 2 grch ntchs I hunted and campaigned 2 of them all three have the same faults all 3 take to long to settle on a cold tree ( I am talking a coon most dogs can't smell ) all three are extremely hard to handle and hard headed and all three want to hunt on the leash you have to carry a switch to make them lead they're daddy was a pleasure to hunt had none of those faults so the last cross I took her back to her grandpa to try to get back to were I was witch is extremely tight but time will tell. Really it's just as tight as the all grand dogs so I might be looking for a complete outcross next time that's what I am asking when is it time to step out of bounds for a cross or two ?

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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Rover,Arkansas
Posts: 1130

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Like I said not bashing but when I made the cross that made my 8 yr old female there were only 3 pups 1 Grntch 2 grch ntchs I hunted and campaigned 2 of them all three have the same faults all 3 take to long to settle on a cold tree ( I am talking a coon most dogs can't smell ) all three are extremely hard to handle and hard headed and all three want to hunt on the leash you have to carry a switch to make them lead they're daddy was a pleasure to hunt had none of those faults so the last cross I took her back to her grandpa to try to get back to were I was witch is extremely tight but time will tell. Really it's just as tight as the all grand dogs so I might be looking for a complete outcross next time that's what I am asking when is it time to step out of bounds for a cross or two ?

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location:
Posts: 562

if you look 6 generations and further back you will see the same stud that started the line top and bottom several times to different females and most he sired and the breeder would keep putting a stud back in as many times as they could to pure it up , all good breeders keep a close eye on the health of pups that have hit the ground and they tack action if health problems arise all though some health problems may not show up until 8 or so generations later and out of their control , some of the lines that are wound up tighter than a banger string will end up being bred by people without the knowledge of whats on the papers to he same line is where you see the bad pop up as in traits , health problems , etc , i think that coon hounds have more health problems than any of the other hunting dogs i have ever owned ..

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