Registered: Oct 2010
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While Judging a cast this past Saturday I Had a tough call to make.

Last drop not much time left. Cast 3 dogs lose. 2 of the dogs were struck in at around 38 seconds into the minute about 50 yards away. Both barked 2 times. Then quiet. I let a minute pass. Then informed the 2 handlers that they needed to show a track or be minused for babbling. Another minute went by and they opened back up about 250 yards away. I stated they were minused. One wanted a vote and of course they voted to not minus them.

Would a MOH side with the cast vote in this case or the judge?

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The surest thing in the world is that you can never predict how any MOH will rule on a judgement call such as babbling. I honestly think his/her ruling will depend more on what they think of you and what they think of the others as than the case you make.
With that said, in a scenerio as described above, I'd say the judge made the right call. I'd also bet if he knows he right, he takes it back. If he's trying to shade someone, he let's it go.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
While Judging a cast this past Saturday I Had a tough call to make.

Last drop not much time left. Cast 3 dogs lose. 2 of the dogs were struck in at around 38 seconds into the minute about 50 yards away. Both barked 2 times. Then quiet. I let a minute pass. Then informed the 2 handlers that they needed to show a track or be minused for babbling. Another minute went by and they opened back up about 250 yards away. I stated they were minused. One wanted a vote and of course they voted to not minus them.

Would a MOH side with the cast vote in this case or the judge?

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I don't like a babbler. That being said down here in this thick stuff I wouldn't call that babbling jmo.


Tar

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Last edited by JiM on 07-11-2018 at 02:55 PM

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Look at your watch Jim 38 seconds before they barked and 50 yrds is plenty far enough away to find a coon and then just a couple barks and move out I don't like a babbling dog but that don't fit the mold to me.



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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Look at your watch Jim 38 seconds before they barked and 50 yrds is plenty far enough away to find a coon and then just a couple barks and move out I don't like a babbling dog but that don't fit the mold to me.



Tar

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Look at your watch Jim 38 seconds before they barked and 50 yrds is plenty far enough away to find a coon and then just a couple barks and move out I don't like a babbling dog but that don't fit the mold to me.



Tar

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So what is babbling then ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
So what is babbling then ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
UKC defines babbling very specifically. It is striking a dog where no track is apparent. Total judgement. Nothing else.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Well they got a minute before you have to strike them most are rattling every breath before then and by time the minute is up they are deep and you can't do anything about it. Your hunt describes our pleasure hunts right now we turn loose in the plumbs or grapes the get struck where they been feeding before dark bad tracks and they have to drift out to pick up the track. I have hunted with some well trained babblers and your case don't fit the mold to me.


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If 2 dogs go out and aren't barking off the lead and then just bark 2 times and shut up, then why did they open? Sounds to me like they barked at something. I would say that "a track was evident". Babbling is babbling. Time, distance, number of barks really has nothing to do with it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If 2 dogs go out and aren't barking off the lead and then just bark 2 times and shut up, then why did they open? Sounds to me like they barked at something. I would say that "a track was evident". Babbling is babbling. Time, distance, number of barks really has nothing to do with it.

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Trevor, would you of made the same call if they would of struck after the minute?

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quote:

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Originally posted by sleepy head
Trevor, would you of made the same call if they would of struck after the minute?

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Benefit to dog. Hard to answer when your not on the cast.

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Sleepy Head good question. What if it was a minute and 38 seconds and the stuck in 200 yards away and didn’t bark again for another 250? To me two barks isn’t babbling but then again each judge is different.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sleepy head
Trevor, would you of made the same call if they would of struck after the minute?

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Nobody but Donald Trump has balls that big.

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I thought not having to strike your dog on or before the third bark with in the first minute was a rule added in ukc to protect everyones babbling dogs. I know dogs that don't open but once every couple hundred yards or so you going to minus him because he hit a track under the minute.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
No I would not have. Determining babbling is tough to impossible once dogs get some distance away. But if a handler has the nerve to strike right off he deserves what he gets. Good or bad.

I encourage any of you to enter a hunt this week in either kennel club and strike your dog right off. If it doesn't open back up and prove a track in a reasonable distance let us know how you faired. I judge almost every cast I'm on and I try to follow the rules and judge with integrity but there's always room for improvement.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sleepy head
If you wouldn't minus after the minute in the exact same situation other than the the time. No reason to minus before the minute either

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This wasn't the first drop off had they been babbling might affect my answer

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Trevor, I would have given them minus also. I think you have seen me do it. I would do it after the minute also if I can see the dogs and know what they are doing. Head up running each other barking = babbling. If they were in the woods and I could not tell what they were doing all i can do is apply the 8. I will minus a dog for babbling at anytime but I need to be able to see them in most cases, but that's not how it has to be done. Its just how I prefer to do it.

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Boy Joey your ruff at 38 seconds two barks means they are babbling and at 250 they picked up the track that means they only was quiet 200 yrds my kind of dog drift that son of a gun don't woller lol.



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