Registered: Oct 2021
Location: Pa
Posts: 18

Modified/split strike points

Why this won't work.

Not near enough hunting ground in the majority of the country for this to be feasible at every event along with the this would bring more frustration from the people already against our sport of running hounds.
Folks aren't in good enough shape.
If you don't want to hunt with another dog there's HTX hunts.

Another prime example is the Joy hunt they only had a 3 dog cast none of them on a tree together. They didn't run a track together. 4.2 miles walked by the cast. With the last trees being scored the dogs were over 1 mile apart from each other under coon.

Coon hunting events are THE ONLY hound events I've found where owners train a hound to go away from its natural instinct of wanting to be a pack animal to a solo independent individual hound that if it's near another one its a problem for them.

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Thomas Johnson

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I think it was 4 scored on in 2 hrs

With a couple other trees minus and circle

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Thomas Johnson

Last edited by Tom Johnson on 02-28-2023 at 01:13 PM

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One thing is for sure. If there is separate strike points every hunter out there will absolutely be shocking every dog that is close to another dog as soon as the 1st one barks. While Training that is.
Anyone who doesn't think this will happen is in LA LA land.

We could change the name of our hunts from competition hunts to compete hunts.

Not sure how far we can go with the independence of the hounds before there not really competing at all. Pretty sure we are close. Us as hunters are working harder,walking further and are getting more and more independent in our hunting and training. In the long run it's biting our sport in the buns.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2620

I agree Pam, I feel the rules we have in place now are the best we’ve had and give multiple styles of dog that do there job and tree coon a chance to win, just tree more coon!!
We can already minus the babbler ✔️
We have 125 tree to more separate the coon tree’er from the backpacker ✔️
We have a progressive tree count down & 3min tree ✔️
We have no leash lock ✔️

This is a competition from track to tree, Recut and make less mistakes and tree more coon.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Louisiana
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Here's another scenario..Dogs leave..except for 1. He hangs around the cast for awhile until everything else strikes..is it fair to award him the same number of strike points as everything else? What about a dog that quits barking or the time catches him? Should he only be penalized what would amount to a last strike?.
Before anyone thinks it can't happen..I watched a dog one night that was the TWBFA Dog of the Year the previous year walk around about half of the cast...then we accidentally walked him over a coon that he treed nearly won.
I started in the days that you probably aren't going to score on more than one or two in the cast..nevermind treeing one more than the others.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jkidd1
I agree Pam, I feel the rules we have in place now are the best we’ve had and give multiple styles of dog that do there job and tree coon a chance to win, just tree more coon!!
We can already minus the babbler ✔️
We have 125 tree to more separate the coon tree’er from the backpacker ✔️
We have a progressive tree count down & 3min tree ✔️
We have no leash lock ✔️

This is a competition from track to tree, Recut and make less mistakes and tree more coon.

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I'll say I agree with most of the rules . It sure makes it disturbing when we have people no longer competition hunting or hunting at all for that matter trying to change rules to have it make since to them?. Separate strike and tree points call the value what ever you want and call one just as fair as the other if you want. Keep changing the rules you won't have to worry about free casting you'll be looking for a in closed pen.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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Would like to know why?

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OLD TIMER

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quote:

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Originally posted by OLD TIMER
Would like to know why?

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

While my age and health no longer allows me to competition hunt, I did competition hunt for 40 plus years. Changing a rule or rules certainly would not benefit me in any way. Saying that, I still love coon hunting and following the competition hunts both UKC and PKC. I tend to champion things that are fair and right for everyone and if a Rule is unfair I definitely want change. I have read every post on this thread and see a bunch of opinions on the strike points, but FAIL to see any logic or common sense approach to having separate tree points, but one set of strike points. Dogs winding up tied happens all the time under today's rules, if every thing is equal at the end of the hunt, simply hunt until the tie is broken. We only hunt one to two hours now while in the past we hunted 3 hours. Time hunted was changed to accommodate the hunters, NOT the dogs.Drawing straws to determine a winner if all dogs are tied beats getting BEAT by a dog the done nothing more than your dog regarding strike points. I agree with those complaining about hunting ground to accommodate the independent dogs in today's hunts, but that is what we have and it has nothing to do with a rule to make things equal. Maybe old deep and lonely with a first strike out the gate and trees a mile dog would not be as common I'd we had separate strike points. Dave

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Registered: Dec 2003
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I would like to hear why we shouldn’t change it? Is it, because we’ve always done it this way or, I like to strike my dog quick so I can get more strike points than anyone else? The only reason to strike a dog would be to be able to tree it. The rule even says, must be struck to tree. We have scenarios now where we split the strike….so what difference does it make. The only reason we should even have a strike point is if a dog quits and comes in….then minus it accordingly. It’s called Coon hunting, not track hunting. Lol.

We made monumental changes recently….that doesn’t mean it is perfect. It never will. I read the shocking comment too….I don’t know about everyone else’s dog, but if you tone or shock mine….he’s coming to me, not blowing out.

Just my opinion. This is an interesting thread though.

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I respect you guys and your opinions and definitely respect the way you disagree.You guys are competition hunters and really help out whenever needed. I agree that there would be a getting used to period for separate strike points, but it's the same for any rule change. For those opposed to separate strike points, but for separate tree points I would love to hear your logic on this matter. In my law classes many years ago I learned that Justice is blind and everyone should be treated the same under any law or rule. I have always practiced this motto in all phases of my life. As one of my Law Judge friends always says "If it does not make sense, it's not true". How do we justify separate tree points, but one set of strike points? It does not make sense. Dave

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Last edited by Dave Richards on 03-02-2023 at 12:00 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
While my age and health no longer allows me to competition hunt, I did competition hunt for 40 plus years. Changing a rule or rules certainly would not benefit me in any way. Saying that, I still love coon hunting and following the competition hunts both UKC and PKC. I tend to champion things that are fair and right for everyone and if a Rule is unfair I definitely want change. Dave

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2765

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick St.Clair
20 years ago this wouldnt be talked about, everyone would train for a faster hound and be a quicker handler. Now we are running out of locations to have major events without having conflict with landowners, but yet we still want the dogs to go further and be further apart and keep rewarding for this practice. I'd be will to bet, I'll go one further 3/4 of people that consider there selfs top handlers would be lost if it wasn't for Garmin's and 4 dogs in 4 different locations. God forbid you actually had to listen and call your dog.

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I agree with your assessment of today's hunts, I would love to go back to the days when the dogs packed and one set of strike/tree points was applicable. I am afraid those days are gone forever. I honest feel like separate strike points would be a step in the right direction to reward all dogs that they deserve. If everyone is competing with the same rules there should not be any unfair advantages. Dogs blowing out of the country would be unlikely to get more than one set of strike tree points, while the dogs hunting closer would likely get more strike/tree points. I follow all the big hunts both UKC and PKC and often see the dog that strikes first, blows through the country trees on a hot pop up coon winning the hunt, while the other dogs tree closer with less strike points. I only advocate what's right for everyone in having separate strike points if we have separate tree points. How is tree points any different than strike points? Thank you Rick for being respectful in all of your posts/comments. Dave

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Let's just cut them loose and the dog treed the closest with the coon is the winner. We can just wait till all 4 are treed. Time makes no difference. No 1st thru 4th Strike, silent, babbler. None of that stuff matters. No excuses no scratches.
No 1st thru 4th tree. Only be there. Be alone. Only Have the coon on the closest tree. Go to the closest dog from the point of release by use of Garmin. If it has the coon it's the winner. If not u go to the next closest and so on.

Just because we did it different in the past doesn't make it right.

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Even the old fellows would be able to compete again.

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Let's just cut them loose and the dog treed the closest with the coon is the winner. We can just wait till all 4 are treed. Time makes no difference. No 1st thru 4th Strike, silent, babbler. None of that stuff matters. No excuses no scratches.
No 1st thru 4th tree. Only be there. Be alone. Only Have the coon on the closest tree. Go to the closest dog from the point of release by use of Garmin. If it has the coon it's the winner. If not u go to the next closest and so on.

Just because we did it different in the past doesn't make it right.

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Registered: Nov 2016
Location: Greenwood SC
Posts: 174

The handlers should be responsible enough to do the right thing and leave babbling idiots laying in the woods.
However, I hear people brag about this type of dog almost as if they are proud that their hounds bark from start to finish.
Having one set of strike points all 25 is a great idea. The bottom line is the dog that gets treed first or separate with the meat should be rewarded with the most points.
Another thing that could make it better is only have first tree points. Nothing worse to me than a hound hearing a dog treed and running as hard as it can to back the dog that’s been treed. Why in the world would I snap my lead on a hound that can’t get in there and get it done on its own.
I am not talking about dogs running one coon and getting treed together. I am talking about dogs leaving where they are hunting and covering 600 yards or whatever ever distance to backpack.
One set of tree points would eliminate backpackers and cause the handler to bring a better dog.

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I don't consider myself a COMPETITION weekend Warrior. I go to the local hunts and the biggest event that i won was the first Grandmasters in 2015. But I compare the dogs every night on every drop. Whether they are all my dogs or I'm pleasure hunting with friends I'm constantly comparing dog against dog and trying to figure out which dog is superior and in which traits. I'm always looking for the dog that dominates on EVERY coon.

The gimmick dogs being promoted today that take advantage of the rule loopholes are probably the main reason for lower attendance.

There needs to be an Event that identify the dog that is a game getter that trees the most coon, in the least amount of time, in the least amount of realistate.

Superior track dogs are scarce and need to receive recognition.

Some of these suggestions remind me of athletic events where all participants receive a small trophy!
Or businesses that pay the same no matter of your productivity.
Just My Opinion, Ken Risley

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I'm getting a laugh out of all that are lobbing one way or another, we tend to forget that the new rules just went into effect a little over 2 months ago on January 1st 2023 and also where it used to be effective for three years I believe they changed policy to go with a five years between the rules committee meetings , so it just might be nearly 5 years before these rules could be changed.. l would hope that we could all take a deep breath and accept this. for the next few years and then if you-all still want changes bring it back up say in 4 years , until then play by the rules we have😊👍

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I don't agree with penalizing dogs that are able to find and open on a track quicker than others. That SHOULD BE an advantage.

If you want to modify points, modify tree points. 25 Points for treeing. An extra 25 points for each dog you tree ahead of. If you tree ahead of 3 other dogs (same tree), you get 125 tree points.

So, treeing alone = 25 tree points.
Tree ahead of 1 other dog = 25 tree points + 25 more for treeing ahead of 1 other dog.
Tree ahead of 2 other dogs = 25 tree points + 50 more for treeing ahead of 2 other dogs.
Tree ahead of 3 other dogs = 25 tree points + 100 more for treeing ahead of 3 other dogs.

I think a 1st strike, 1st tree dog should be the objective, not the dog we make rules against.

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Registered: Aug 2013
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quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh
I don't agree with penalizing dogs that are able to find and open on a track quicker than others. That SHOULD BE an advantage.

If you want to modify points, modify tree points. 25 Points for treeing. An extra 25 points for each dog you tree ahead of. If you tree ahead of 3 other dogs (same tree), you get 125 tree points.

So, treeing alone = 25 tree points.
Tree ahead of 1 other dog = 25 tree points + 25 more for treeing ahead of 1 other dog.
Tree ahead of 2 other dogs = 25 tree points + 50 more for treeing ahead of 2 other dogs.
Tree ahead of 3 other dogs = 25 tree points + 100 more for treeing ahead of 3 other dogs.

I think a 1st strike, 1st tree dog should be the objective, not the dog we make rules against.

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Registered: May 2005
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Get em on the paper, Free Points!

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Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
A dogs points should not be dependent upon what the others in the cast do. Your idea is not a good one IMO!

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
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quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh
I don't agree with penalizing dogs that are able to find and open on a track quicker than others. That SHOULD BE an advantage.

If you want to modify points, modify tree points. 25 Points for treeing. An extra 25 points for each dog you tree ahead of. If you tree ahead of 3 other dogs (same tree), you get 125 tree points.

So, treeing alone = 25 tree points.
Tree ahead of 1 other dog = 25 tree points + 25 more for treeing ahead of 1 other dog.
Tree ahead of 2 other dogs = 25 tree points + 50 more for treeing ahead of 2 other dogs.
Tree ahead of 3 other dogs = 25 tree points + 100 more for treeing ahead of 3 other dogs.

I think a 1st strike, 1st tree dog should be the objective, not the dog we make rules against.

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