Registered: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 400

I've never lobbied to have the rules changed, and hunted an independent dog before they were popular. Now days. 90% of the handlers out here wouldn't no how to call or handle there dog if it wasn't by itself. Is an independent dog better than a pack dog???? I don't know. Some like them to pack so some don't, at the end of the day there are two types. What style are they gonna make the rules fit to make the most money? All it comes down too. Lmao you can make having 4 legs a scratchable offence, almost everyone would be mad, the rest would be looking for a 3 legged dog.

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Registered: Jun 2012
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Posts: 38

How many people remember what happened when UKC started awarding 125 tree points vs 100. The results are still present.

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5637

The goal of any game with RULES is to treat ALL Players the same. Achieving this goal is only possible if every player is judged the same way. Rewarding one dog first strike over the other dogs if they tree separate coons is definitely NOT treating all dogs equal. Everyone agrees awarding separate tree points is fair to all dogs, so why are strike points treated differently? Why would awarding strike points based on separate coons be a problem? No dog should benefit more than another dog for doing the exact same thing such as striking and treeing seperate coons. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 02-23-2023 at 09:18 PM

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
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Not everyone agrees separate tree points is a good thing. Separate strike points would be a nightmare.

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Registered: Jul 2017
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Posts: 114

Automatic strike dogs have become an issue. I don't care, at 25 recast in most situations, moot point. I have constantly asked to keep the rules the same, confusion on ever changing rules, bigger problem. Plus you have people confused over PKC rules and UKC rules, just keep it simple, be great!

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Registered: Apr 2015
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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Not everyone agrees separate tree points is a good thing. Separate strike points would be a nightmare.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
I would love to hear your thoughts on why separate tree points and separate strike points would be a nightmare. It would be a simple matter to record separate strike points for separate trees just like we score separate tree points for separate trees. Why would you think that it would be a nightmare or unfair to any dog? It is unjust to award one set of strike points as it would be unjust to award one set of tree points for separate trees. Why should any dog be awarded more points for doing the exact same thing as another dog in the cast? Dave

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

We could make it a 1 dog hunt if we don't want them to compete for strike or tree. Oh wait we already did it's called htx

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Registered: Jan 2016
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Posts: 589

From what I read on this board, in for sale adds, stud adds and what people write up regarding hunt results it appears that the majority of folks don’t want a truly open trailing coon dog.

Like many things in this life “Follow the money”! It reveals a lot! The big money hunts have had a definite effect on re-shaping the coonhound breeds from what they were 30-40 years ago. Some of those changes have been good. Some not so much from my perspective.

This being said, I can also see where the type of coon dog I always preferred may well becoming near impossible to hunt the way things are today. Especially in the Northeast.
When I first got into hunting with hounds most of the property owners where I coon hunted were of the World War I and WW II generation. Most were native to the area and farmers. Very little posted land and most of those who did post, if you made a personal visit and introduced yourself and explained what you wanted to do, would give you permission to hunt.

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Dan

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Registered: Apr 2015
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quote:

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Originally posted by Rick St.Clair
Dave no offense to your way of thinking, but once again on changing rules why? With your take, what would a score even mean? Wouldn't it be easier to just count tails??? Along with needing to get younger generations into this sport we have lost way more edler participation. Most older forks are not looking to get 7 miles in on one cast. We wonder why hunting grounds are hard to find? Keep turning into a section and have 3 dogs out of it. Won't be long and there won't be a sport.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Rick, I hear what you are saying, but don't exactly understand the score comment. A true score based on exactly what the dogs do is something we all should seek. Winning a cast by doing the exact same thing another dog did except strike first is absurd. Rewarding a football team or baseball team an advantage by putting more points if they score first would be unheard and certainly unfair. We are doing this by awarding one set of strike points even when the dogs strike separate coons and tree separate coons. Tell me what's fair about doing this, no more fair than using one set of tree points. Reward the dogs the same or be ignorant to think a first strike dog wins by default. I do agree that we are breeding and hunting the wrong type of dogs. I can no longer follow those straight line dogs that blow through the country. Dave

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Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 2122

Easy fix if every dog that competed in any cast had to hunt by itself for a month to prove it could hunt on its own and tree a coon there wouldn’t be enough to put together a 4 dog cast. Very few will when it comes right down to,it.

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Registered: Oct 2022
Location: Leesville SC
Posts: 13

I haven’t competition hunted in years, and don’t care to. Glad we have folks doing it though because in the end it takes all of us sticking together to keep this sport alive. Everybody likes different things. Not just coon dogs, it’s everything in life. One thing that was always confusing to me was the point system in competition hunting. Isn’t the whole point of the game to see who’s dog can tree the most coons in a 2 hour hunt? Why dont we give 1 point for each coon treed? Whoever has the most points at the end of 2 hours wins. Very simple. Strike doesn’t mean anything if there’s not a coon at the end of the trail during pleasure hunting…. Why should it during a competition? If a dog backs another dog on a tree, give him a 1/2 point. If it’s a slick tree or off game, take a point away. Very simple. The point system reminds me of the government playing around with minimum wage, cost of living, inflation, etc etc. They make the numbers bigger and mix them all up to make you feel like you’ve got something when you really don’t.

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Registered: Oct 2022
Location: Leesville SC
Posts: 13

I will say this too, the reason why we can’t agree on points is because the game being played doesn’t fit all the players. The type of dog that can win in the big ukc hunts simply can’t hardly hunt around here anymore. There isn’t enough land. The get deep, be alone, move out fast type dog typically is what you see winning alot of hunts. Most people around here myself included don’t have the land, time, or coons to train and raise a dog like that. The type of dog I hunt most folks call a patch dog. They need to hunt the area I put them in real good and check back in if they haven’t found anything relatively close. My dog would get minused for “not hunting” in a competition hunt. You wouldn’t show up to a football game with baseball gear right? Same thing here. It’s not that the baseball player isn’t a great athlete like the football player, they are just made to play different games.

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Registered: Jun 2004
Location: 3515-38st-moline ill.
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quote:

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Originally posted by james smith
How many people remember what happened when UKC started awarding 125 tree points vs 100. The results are still present.

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Always be yourself because the people that matter dont mind and the people that mind dont matter.Rock River Plotts

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2765

Does anybody remember what happened when UKC implemented the rule that allowed dogs to bark like idiots at nothing for one minute every time you turned them loose ?

Here we are.

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quote:

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Originally posted by james smith
How many people remember what happened when UKC started awarding 125 tree points vs 100. The results are still present.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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One set of strike points....
One set of tree points .... Regardless if your dog split trees....it goes in for 2ed .....etc...etc...

Pretty Ludacris isn't it ?

Yet we tolorate these current (ludacris) strike points as they are now....hmmmmmm
Just thinking out loud.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dogwhisper
One set of strike points....
One set of tree points .... Regardless if your dog split trees....it goes in for 2ed .....etc...etc...

Pretty Ludacris isn't it ?

Yet we tolorate these current (ludacris) strike points as they are now....hmmmmmm
Just thinking out loud.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
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Now Dave u already stated that you have not competition hunted in years and you can't or don't want to walk to ol deep and lonely . There for that should answer some of your thoughts or thoughtless Ness.
1st off let's let pkc try out the separate strike point system 1st.
The last thing we need to do is make these dogs even more independent. Go further. Change the rules yet another time. Put more of a wedge between pleasure and competition hunters and less competition between our dogs.
Careful what you fellows wish for.

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2620

I don’t know if separate strike points would be good or bad in the long run, I haven’t put that much thought into it really. But say we did, what would you do if all 4 dogs split up 4 different ways and all have coon and the hunts over? How you Gona go about breaking that tie?

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AFTER DARK KENNELS

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765-520-1552


*females*
GRNITECH' JR'S JANEY
(Xjr X Insane Jane)

GRNITECH ST. JOHN'S STYLISH REX
(Ol south stylish Rebel X Janey)

GRNITECH' AFTER DARK'S JAN-IT
(Sweat It X Janey)

DUAL GRNITE' LONETREE LEGEND (R.I.P.)
(Noct. Style X Southern Sky)

GRNITECH' STYLISH LITTLE PEG(R.I.P.)
(Trackman X Browns Little Peg)

GRNITECH 'PR' JANEY'S GOTTA GUN
(Wild Card X Jr's Janey)

NITECH ‘PR’ REBELS STYLISH MOJA
(Ol Souths Stylish Rebel X Janey)

AFTER DARK’S PURDY PENNY
(Big $$ X Janit)

NITECH' SEVEN MILE SLOOPY(R.I.P.)
(Skipper x Big time Trixie)

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Sudden death !

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I guess I just see things differently than some, and this is just something to ponder on. I feel like a separate set of strike points could take the emphasis off strike points all together. Yes dogs were together more back in the day, and 125 tree promotes dogs to tree separately, and I do feel a dog that trees his own coon deserves separate tree points. But I think the true,original meaning in a perfect world of the one set of strike was established to reward the dog the went in there and found a coon track first whether it be all dogs together on it or dogs on separate tracks. Yes, Some are saying the name of the game is whoever trees the most coon in 2hrs, and it is, but don’t you think if all dogs tree the same amount of coons in a hunt the one that found his tracks first should be the winner if all other columns are the same. I don’t like a babbler/automatic dog personally and agree with those who said automatic babblers that get away with it are getting undeserved points. We’ll,UKC doesn’t like it either, that’s why they have a rule in place for that to minus them, we just have to use it. I know they won’t always get caught, but as much as I don’t like undeserved 1st strike, I wouldn’t like it either if my dog goes in there and strikes first and trails a coon up and had it treed in 5mins and ol Cujo is just out of our lights over there eating grass and stumbles up on a coon 20mins later to get the same amount of points as mine, Yes Cujo treed a coon, but mine done it more efficiently and the scorecard should reflect that,IMO.

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AFTER DARK KENNELS

JEREMY KIDD
765-520-1552


*females*
GRNITECH' JR'S JANEY
(Xjr X Insane Jane)

GRNITECH ST. JOHN'S STYLISH REX
(Ol south stylish Rebel X Janey)

GRNITECH' AFTER DARK'S JAN-IT
(Sweat It X Janey)

DUAL GRNITE' LONETREE LEGEND (R.I.P.)
(Noct. Style X Southern Sky)

GRNITECH' STYLISH LITTLE PEG(R.I.P.)
(Trackman X Browns Little Peg)

GRNITECH 'PR' JANEY'S GOTTA GUN
(Wild Card X Jr's Janey)

NITECH ‘PR’ REBELS STYLISH MOJA
(Ol Souths Stylish Rebel X Janey)

AFTER DARK’S PURDY PENNY
(Big $$ X Janit)

NITECH' SEVEN MILE SLOOPY(R.I.P.)
(Skipper x Big time Trixie)

Proud UNION JOURNEYMAN LINEMAN
https://i.postimg.cc/654pWfzm/IMG-1920.png
I.B.E.W. LOCAL 1393

Last edited by jkidd1 on 02-28-2023 at 02:47 AM

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Registered: Feb 2005
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If u got a 5 min. coon treer..... Competeing against a 20 min. cujo is a no brainer...... U ought be turning loose ...after ur scored trees all nite long .....cujo is of no account after 10 min.......

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Registered: Dec 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2620

What if we don’t make another tree all night? What if all 4 dogs strike and go 4 different ways on obvious different tracks and the 6 catches them all, do all 4 get 100 strike minus or just the dog that struck first? This first big problem with separate strike points would be all the ties. There’s a lot “ifs” that can happen after that, That’s just a brief scenario, my point is I don’t feel both dogs done an equal job on those particular coon, and the scorecard should show that,IMO. I’m pretty opened minded, and I’m not saying I’d forever be against anything other than the way it is now. I just haven’t seen anything else I feel is better than the way we got it as of now. To me there’s 2 sides of that score card and we should be trying to be the best on both sides of it, and we’ve all hunted in enough of these to know there’s times when it’s close whether they all do good or bad, but we need a deciding factor to have a winner, and I feel they way we got it now does that.

__________________
AFTER DARK KENNELS

JEREMY KIDD
765-520-1552


*females*
GRNITECH' JR'S JANEY
(Xjr X Insane Jane)

GRNITECH ST. JOHN'S STYLISH REX
(Ol south stylish Rebel X Janey)

GRNITECH' AFTER DARK'S JAN-IT
(Sweat It X Janey)

DUAL GRNITE' LONETREE LEGEND (R.I.P.)
(Noct. Style X Southern Sky)

GRNITECH' STYLISH LITTLE PEG(R.I.P.)
(Trackman X Browns Little Peg)

GRNITECH 'PR' JANEY'S GOTTA GUN
(Wild Card X Jr's Janey)

NITECH ‘PR’ REBELS STYLISH MOJA
(Ol Souths Stylish Rebel X Janey)

AFTER DARK’S PURDY PENNY
(Big $$ X Janit)

NITECH' SEVEN MILE SLOOPY(R.I.P.)
(Skipper x Big time Trixie)

Proud UNION JOURNEYMAN LINEMAN
https://i.postimg.cc/654pWfzm/IMG-1920.png
I.B.E.W. LOCAL 1393

Last edited by jkidd1 on 02-28-2023 at 06:05 AM

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