UKC Forums UKC Website :: Hunting Ops :: All-Breed Sports :: Registration :: UKC Online Store
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home  
UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Automatic ďStrikeĒ Dogs
Pages (2): « 1 [2]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
ClayBottom11
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 117

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
In my opinion, AKC had the answer to the babbling rules but none of the other kennel companies wanted to copy them.


Iím not familiar, what was their answer?

__________________
Ryan Morris

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-17-2023 07:56 PM
ClayBottom11 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for ClayBottom11 Click here to Send ClayBottom11 a Private Message Find more posts by ClayBottom11 Add ClayBottom11 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Jason Bourne
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2017
Location:
Posts: 97

Not Player

Yea right, not a player in the hunting world, who cares what they came up with. Just like some people think this forum has magical powers, it's for entertainment purposes . I stop in from time to time , watch people try to snow plow their opinions over others.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-17-2023 10:39 PM
Jason Bourne is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Jason Bourne Click here to Send Jason Bourne a Private Message Click Here to Email Jason Bourne Find more posts by Jason Bourne Add Jason Bourne to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Rester
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Saucier MS
Posts: 57

Babbling

No child left behind what I call it!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-18-2023 12:45 AM
Rester is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Rester Click here to Send Rester a Private Message Find more posts by Rester Add Rester to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2323

Re: Re: Automatic ďStrikeĒ Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by GES
"I fully understand the advantage on the scorecard, and many of these dogs Iím speaking of do a lot of winning. "

I think you answered your own question..........winning isn't about who has the best dog, Winning=Money. Winning gets you pup sales and stud fees. Winning gets you on podcast and picture on magazine covers. So,,,,the folks that want to win do whatever is necessary to win. Silent dogs, babbling dogs, mean dogs, junk runners that fall treed, slick treeing, me-to dogs, and straight line hunters are all out there being promoted by somebody that just wants to win.

You'll never put integrity and honor in the hunts by changing how you score a dog.



Winning is also hard. It takes a lot more good traits in a dog to do it consistently than it does bad, the most important of which is......treeing more raccoons than everything it is up against.

__________________
Big Show Hunting Productions
www.joydogfood.com
Fueled by Joy Podcast

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-18-2023 01:59 PM
Josh Michaelis is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Josh Michaelis Click here to Send Josh Michaelis a Private Message Click Here to Email Josh Michaelis Find more posts by Josh Michaelis Add Josh Michaelis to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Rester
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Saucier MS
Posts: 57

Babbling

No child left behind is what I call it!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-18-2023 02:21 PM
Rester is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Rester Click here to Send Rester a Private Message Find more posts by Rester Add Rester to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
jake waddell
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2010
Location: haywood co tn
Posts: 60

rules are there, use them, the problem that i see is not a rule issue its a comunication issue or lack there of, there was a comp hunt going around of two handlers about to come to blows cussing each other, when the rules were right there in the judges hand, use them!!! when you cut loose dogs strikes off the lead then shuts up and opens a mile away just say what you think happened nicely, an if your judging enforce it next time or ask for it to be enforced, its a compitision, an as long as we live in a fallen world there will be people that will not do whats rite, just a fact, but what gets me is the rules are on the ones that want to do rite, side, use them, an keep your emotions out of the discussion.

__________________
jake

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-18-2023 04:07 PM
jake waddell is offline Click Here to See the Profile for jake waddell Click here to Send jake waddell a Private Message Click Here to Email jake waddell Find more posts by jake waddell Add jake waddell to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Tim Green
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Burkburnett, TX
Posts: 495

If Iím competing in a hunt, I could care less if the leave barking or not. That strike is irrelevant if they tree coons. I just donít want my dog penalized on a strike if it trees its own Coon. Believe it or not, there are more coons than just one in the woods and they leave different tracts.

Make the strike the same and get to treeing coons. We can hunt an hour, 2 hours, or all night. Just score them trees.

__________________
Tim Green
Retired Air Force 24+ years
Disabled Veteran

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-18-2023 05:13 PM
Tim Green is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Tim Green Click here to Send Tim Green a Private Message Click Here to Email Tim Green Find more posts by Tim Green Add Tim Green to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dogwhisper
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1723

We got 5 more years fer the next rule change....maybe UKC can update or redefine "babbling" .....🤔

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-18-2023 10:19 PM
Dogwhisper is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Dogwhisper Click here to Send Dogwhisper a Private Message Find more posts by Dogwhisper Add Dogwhisper to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AAThoundhunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location:
Posts: 191

Strike dogs

I have a tight mouth dog always striking for 25. Iíve got a good strike dog usually striking for 75 or 100. That good strike dog makes my life a lot easier.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-19-2023 01:14 PM
AAThoundhunter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AAThoundhunter Click here to Send AAThoundhunter a Private Message Find more posts by AAThoundhunter Add AAThoundhunter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AAThoundhunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location:
Posts: 191

Strike dogs

I have a tight mouth dog always striking for 25. Iíve got a good strike dog usually striking for 75 or 100. That good strike dog makes my life a lot easier.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-19-2023 01:14 PM
AAThoundhunter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AAThoundhunter Click here to Send AAThoundhunter a Private Message Find more posts by AAThoundhunter Add AAThoundhunter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2815

quote:
Originally posted by ClayBottom11
Iím not familiar, what was their answer?


No dog can be struck inside the first minute unless immediately followed by a tree call. All dogs barking at the end of the minute go in for only 50 points.

This means an honest strike dog competing against some ghost barkers would only be 25 behind on potential points instead of up to 75 behind.

The biggest problem with the babbling rules is enforcing them. Once a dog gets in the timber and is struck itís hard to prove if they are still ghost barking, running junk, running other dogs or running a coon. Even if they shut up for an extended period of time and get deep how does a judge know that the dog didnít hole up and get on through the country and strike another track. It is a great thing to have arguments over so AKC came up with what I feel is the best solution on a problem that has existed for years.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-22-2023 03:30 AM
ov_blues is offline Click Here to See the Profile for ov_blues Click here to Send ov_blues a Private Message Click Here to Email ov_blues Find more posts by ov_blues Add ov_blues to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Team Mafia 2
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2018
Location:
Posts: 155

All you have to do is tree more coon than they do which is the goal anyhow. If you and your dog donít make any mistakes and are alone with more coon than the barker you win.

__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIAíS FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-23-2023 03:44 AM
Team Mafia 2 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Team Mafia 2 Click here to Send Team Mafia 2 a Private Message Click Here to Email Team Mafia 2 Find more posts by Team Mafia 2 Add Team Mafia 2 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
T Felderman
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1861

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
In my opinion, AKC had the answer to the babbling rules but none of the other kennel companies wanted to copy them.

This right here.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-24-2023 06:06 PM
T Felderman is offline Click Here to See the Profile for T Felderman Click here to Send T Felderman a Private Message Find more posts by T Felderman Add T Felderman to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Jeff Nelson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 198

Jerry Moll came up with the AKC strike rules when he worked there. They were fair and worked well.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-25-2023 05:51 AM
Jeff Nelson is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Jeff Nelson Click here to Send Jeff Nelson a Private Message Find more posts by Jeff Nelson Add Jeff Nelson to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 413

Steve Fielder

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 01-25-2023 07:09 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
honalieh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2140

IEP's

With my wife being a teacher, I can put an educational perspective to this.

Education: Class of 4 students. 1 is gifted and exceptional. The other 3 are special ed (and have IEPs). The gifted student gets things done quickly and right, and get an A. The IEP (Special Ed) students are a little slower, so get extra time, open books, and teacher aides. This eventually results in them also getting the right answers. They too get A's.

Competition Hunting: Cast of 4. 1 is gifted and exceptional. The other 3 are on the slow side (Special Ed/IEP's). The gifted/exceptional dog gets treed quickly with the coon, and gets 125 tree points. The IEP (Special Ed) dogs are a little slower, so get extra time. This eventually results in them also treeing a coon. So, they too get 125 tree points.

I prefer the gifted and exceptional dog myself.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 02-02-2023 06:23 AM
honalieh is offline Click Here to See the Profile for honalieh Click here to Send honalieh a Private Message Click Here to Email honalieh Find more posts by honalieh Add honalieh to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
John Fults
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2022
Location:
Posts: 24

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Hunting a dog that babbles should be against the rules. That is the only way to stop it. Hunting a dog that babbles is "gaining an unfair advantage". Handlers are either taking advantage of the rules or outright cheating depending on how you view it.
If you really want to stop it, scratch a dog for babbling. If they are scratched for babbling 3 times, bar them from entering a hunt for a year.
Or if you are really serious about it bar the handler if he/she enters a babbling dog in a hunt. After all the handler is attempting to cheat.

Now there is the solution. How serious are y'all?

If the judges are too weak to minus dogs for babbling, what makes you think these same weak judges are going to scratch these dogs?? The problem is simply, the judges!! If Iím judging, and a dog is struck on a babble, Iíll minus the dog in a heartbeat! If the handler donít agree, he can question it, and ask for a vote!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 02-02-2023 02:14 PM
John Fults is offline Click Here to See the Profile for John Fults Click here to Send John Fults a Private Message Click Here to Email John Fults Find more posts by John Fults Add John Fults to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2815

quote:
Originally posted by John Fults
If the judges are too weak to minus dogs for babbling, what makes you think these same weak judges are going to scratch these dogs?? The problem is simply, the judges!! If Iím judging, and a dog is struck on a babble, Iíll minus the dog in a heartbeat! If the handler donít agree, he can question it, and ask for a vote!


The problem is right there, figuring out whether a dog is babbling based on limited exposure to said dog. I've hunted 50 years and I have a female right now that I can't figure out when she is tracking and when she is loose mouthing. IF she gets her coon treeing down she will be a handful in a competition hunt but right now with all that running of the mouth she sure isn't that fun to pleasure hunt. I have another female that I know isn't babbling but a person sure wouldn't think that she wasn't on some nights when coon have been on the ground and she strikes tracks right at your feet that other dogs can't even smell.

AKC has the right rule, or at least close to the right rule, to at least take a lot of the guess work out of it. I think it should be dogs barking in the last 10 or 15 seconds as a dog could easily shut up for 5 seconds on a track.

A. Strike Points
1. One set of strike points as follows: 100 points
for dog declared struck first; 75 points second;
50 points third and 25 points fourth. All dogs
must be loose and competing in order for first
strike of 100 points to be awarded. If dog(s) are
re-struck after being scored plus, minus, circle
or deleted they may only be struck back in for
25 points unless all dogs are competing for 100
strike points.

2. One (1) minute time to be kept each time dog(s)
are released. No dog to receive strike points
during that minute unless immediately followed
by a tree call. Fifty (50) strike points will be
recorded for dog(s) barking within the last five
seconds of the minute. Remaining dogs, when
struck receive 25 points. This rule will only be
in effect when all dogs are loose and competing
for 100 strike points. The judge will count aloud
the last five seconds of the minute and announce,
ďminute is up,Ē and will indicate which dogs are
struck and recorded for 50 strike points if any.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 02-02-2023 08:56 PM
ov_blues is offline Click Here to See the Profile for ov_blues Click here to Send ov_blues a Private Message Click Here to Email ov_blues Find more posts by ov_blues Add ov_blues to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1134

I guess my concern isnít the one that opens under the minute a few times and gets struck but doesnít carry a track out, that one u can usually get a minus vote. The ones that are hard to judge and get minused are the ones that leave barking and really never shut up. How can anyone minus a dog that leaves barking and is still barking minutes later at 500 yards and the other honest mouth dogs havenít opened? Maybe a second dog opens a time or two at 90 seconds out 200 or so and gets struck , now Iím working with 50 or even 25 for a ďhonest first strikeĒ. Treeing the extra coon isnít a problem sometimes, but often times itís just not a reality.

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 02-02-2023 10:04 PM
Sonny Phipps is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sonny Phipps Click here to Send Sonny Phipps a Private Message Click Here to Email Sonny Phipps Find more posts by Sonny Phipps Add Sonny Phipps to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
John Fults
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2022
Location:
Posts: 24

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
I guess my concern isnít the one that opens under the minute a few times and gets struck but doesnít carry a track out, that one u can usually get a minus vote. The ones that are hard to judge and get minused are the ones that leave barking and really never shut up. How can anyone minus a dog that leaves barking and is still barking minutes later at 500 yards and the other honest mouth dogs havenít opened? Maybe a second dog opens a time or two at 90 seconds out 200 or so and gets struck , now Iím working with 50 or even 25 for a ďhonest first strikeĒ. Treeing the extra coon isnít a problem sometimes, but often times itís just not a reality.
Sonny, there use to be a guy here close to the house that hunted an English female that barked in the truck, on the lead and every breath the second you cut her loose. It was obvious to me she was babbling nearly every time youíd cut her. The way to handle a dog like that, is to go ahead and minus her!! If the handler wants to question it, and call it to a cast vote, let him. Odds are, once youíve opened the gate, the rest of the cast will slam it shut with a minus vote. People usually wonít say much until after somebody else does!! Me personally, Iíll minus one in a heartbeat, Iím there to compete, not make friends.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 02-02-2023 11:43 PM
John Fults is offline Click Here to See the Profile for John Fults Click here to Send John Fults a Private Message Click Here to Email John Fults Find more posts by John Fults Add John Fults to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 1134

I follow what youíre saying and 10-15 years ago it seemed to work the way u described. Iíve not had luck getting support on a vote for it now days. Iím not sure why and maybe it was just the group I was in on the 2 times I pushed for it. Maybe next time itíll work. It most generally isnít an issue in the local hunts I have attended tho , for the most part the dogs arenít bad babblers around the area I live and hunt.

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 02-03-2023 12:24 AM
Sonny Phipps is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sonny Phipps Click here to Send Sonny Phipps a Private Message Click Here to Email Sonny Phipps Find more posts by Sonny Phipps Add Sonny Phipps to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:10 PM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): « 1 [2]   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread


Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
< Contact Us - United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2020, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)