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Dave Richards
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Tar

Agree 100 percent, I have only owned 1 thyroid dog in my life and it came from the same guy. I was unaware at the time of purchase, it did not last long with me. Dave

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SMALL HORSE TRACKS THEY USED TO DRUG THEM TILL THEY'RE EYES BUGGED OUT

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Old Post 04-20-2019 10:26 PM
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yadkintar
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There was also anouther line that was famous in the $$$ hunts they were given ??? To get them in the dark better. Even when humans use ??? It damages their thyroid and causes early sterility ( sound familiar ) ? They just keep quiet and play the game and laugh at all the victims on here trying to figure all this out. They know what they done and as long as they still cash the big checks they donít care.


Simple as that

Tar

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Old Post 04-20-2019 11:02 PM
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Dave Richards
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Tar

Opened another can of worms now, the lengths some folks will go is simply amazing. No regrets or anything other than a desire to win at all costs, or schemes. Sad what some will do, unfortunately these kind of folks exist in every sport, it's just easier to get away with their actions when the sport is unregulated as in coon hunting. Dave

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Old Post 04-21-2019 02:34 AM
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Rip
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Opened another can of worms now, the lengths some folks will go is simply amazing. No regrets or anything other than a desire to win at all costs, or schemes. Sad what some will do, unfortunately these kind of folks exist in every sport, it's just easier to get away with their actions when the sport is unregulated as in coon hunting. Dave


I agree plenty do but it's just not coonhunting. How many fishing tournaments are won with a bunch of fish baskets tied up like limb lines?

A bunch.

How many people use illegal bats on the field?

Illegal engines, carbs, fuel lines??

Deflated footballs???

Cheaters gonna cheat it's what they do.

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Old Post 04-21-2019 02:58 AM
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Dave Richards
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Rip

Doc, you are so right, sad but true. I just do not understand how anyone could be proud of winning something when they cheated to get the win. Dave

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Old Post 04-21-2019 03:55 AM
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Richard Lambert
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When you are hunting for money, it isn't about pride in winning. It is all about how much money you get. Bank robbers rob banks to see how much money they can steal.

And Mr Richards, giving a dog thyroid pills or anything else is not against the rules so it isnt cheating. A lot of handlers look at it as just "gaining an advantage". To them it is just like hunting their dog every night so that they are in better shape than the rest. Or reading the rulebook cover to cover several times so that they know the rules better. Making sure that your dog is performing at its highest level isn't cheating. They know at what T4 level their dog performs best and adjust the pills to keep it there. Is giving a dog supplements or a B12 shot cheating?

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Rip
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
When you are hunting for money, it isn't about pride in winning. It is all about how much money you get. Bank robbers rob banks to see how much money they can steal.

And Mr Richards, giving a dog thyroid pills or anything else is not against the rules so it isnt cheating. A lot of handlers look at it as just "gaining an advantage". To them it is just like hunting their dog every night so that they are in better shape than the rest. Or reading the rulebook cover to cover several times so that they know the rules better. Making sure that your dog is performing at its highest level isn't cheating. They know at what T4 level their dog performs best and adjust the pills to keep it there. Is giving a dog supplements or a B12 shot cheating?



Richard, giving a dog thyroid medication that has a bad thyroid is not cheating it just brings the dog to normal levels. They get no extra benefit or boost from it. \

On the other hand, giving a dog thyroid medication that is not hypothyroid is cheating. It's cheating in the Olympics and any other sport that requires energy. It gives them false energy and increases their stamina at the expense of their health but it gives them a big advantage in competition. That's why it's illegal in human competition. Vitamins are not in the same class as thyroid medication. Extra vitamins are urinated out on the ground and for the most part have no side effects if given orally and they will only be at the normal level because their body adjusts vitamins they eat daily with renal function. Thyroid medication is more in line with amphetamine/cocaine and other things like that. That's why it's tested for in human competition and even if they have a medical reason if it tests above the normal limit they can't compete.

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Richard Lambert
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Isn't the normal level for dogs 1.5 to 3? I thought that they adjusted the level to keep their dog performing at his optimal level in that range? Is having a level of 2.5 harder on a dog than having a level of 1.5? Which is worse being under or being over? How hard on a dog is hunting them 6 hrs a night, 7 days a week for years? How hard on a dog is hunting them when the temp is 80-100 degrees at night? We do a lot to our hounds "at the expense of their health".

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yadkintar
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Richard a lot of those dogs are not hunted at home much they are in hunts more than pleasure hunted. Itís however you look at it I guess. Makes a guy really want to run the hunts knowing whatís waiting on him when he gets there. Might be why numbers are low.


Just sayen.


Tar

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Old Post 04-21-2019 03:21 PM
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Rip
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Isn't the normal level for dogs 1.5 to 3? I thought that they adjusted the level to keep their dog performing at his optimal level in that range? Is having a level of 2.5 harder on a dog than having a level of 1.5? Which is worse being under or being over? How hard on a dog is hunting them 6 hrs a night, 7 days a week for years? How hard on a dog is hunting them when the temp is 80-100 degrees at night? We do a lot to our hounds "at the expense of their health".


The normal is the normal. These guys are going over the normal. As far as the expense of their health, enlarged heart, premature death and heart attack. It's that simple.

It depends on what the normal levels are for that lab. I think the lab my vet uses 2.5 is the high so if they run the dog at 3 that's cheating because they were running it over the normal limits.

Labs are variable based on the units they use so it depends on the lab.

Bottom line if you give thyroid medication and run a dog higher than normal on the lab tests you are cheating.

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Old Post 04-21-2019 03:35 PM
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yadkintar
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Rip in some cases I think they started out with what back in the day us old farts called the juice kind of a steroid concoction over time you know what that does in humans. Then they found out about the thyroid pills in which were used to maintain the damage from the other things being used. Heck I have even seen them pour those 5 hour energy drinks down them. Itís pretty easy to see that some of them have just about went to far dogs making stupid mistakes in the late rounds because they are to amped up to think. I thought I had it all figured out but these guys are smooth. It cost me $8,000 and had it not been for a 14 hr drive and not wanting to go to an Indiana jail I would have got my money back.


Tar

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Old Post 04-21-2019 03:49 PM
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Redneck Mafia
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quote:
Originally posted by Rip
Richard, giving a dog thyroid medication that has a bad thyroid is not cheating it just brings the dog to normal levels. They get no extra benefit or boost from it. \

On the other hand, giving a dog thyroid medication that is not hypothyroid is cheating. It's cheating in the Olympics and any other sport that requires energy. It gives them false energy and increases their stamina at the expense of their health but it gives them a big advantage in competition. That's why it's illegal in human competition. Vitamins are not in the same class as thyroid medication. Extra vitamins are urinated out on the ground and for the most part have no side effects if given orally and they will only be at the normal level because their body adjusts vitamins they eat daily with renal function. Thyroid medication is more in line with amphetamine/cocaine and other things like that. That's why it's tested for in human competition and even if they have a medical reason if it tests above the normal limit they can't compete.


The same argument happens at the Olympic level that happens here. Any last I checked it is not a banned substance. There is some interesting info put out by an endocrinologist for many top Olympians. You can find his name in this article and do some research. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ib...1196751%3famp=1

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Richard Lambert
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Even knowing the side effects and what it does to them, lots of athletes take the hormones. And if they didn't get drug tested almost all of them would. So it stands to reason that handlers would give them to their dogs. I wonder how many dogs would take them if it was up to them? Most of the top winning hounds are just as competitive as their handlers. Some call it "the air of greatness".

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Bruce m. Conkey
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.

I think many are missing boat here. There are many Thyroid Coon Hounds out there that have never been doped in any fashion. They are not even walkers so their genetics isnt even close to what the experts on here think is a line of dogs with thyroid issues.

How many of you have ever seen the typical clinical example of a thyroid dog. It is not a pretty picture. Yes there is such a thing. I am saying there is a lot more going on with our hounds of all breeds. Someday the truth will come out. Probably a dog food issue. But to get someone to do long term testing and expose it. Will be a long time coming.

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Old Post 04-21-2019 07:22 PM
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Rip
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quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
The same argument happens at the Olympic level that happens here. Any last I checked it is not a banned substance. There is some interesting info put out by an endocrinologist for many top Olympians. You can find his name in this article and do some research. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ib...1196751%3famp=1


It's not a banned substance but it's cheating and doping without a doubt. That's why NIKE pays so much to have it done and why the WDA wanted it outlawed.

The reason they can't completely outlaw it is because there are plenty of true patients, athletes included, that need it and an outright ban would be unfair.

BUT there have been people stripped of their title from using Synthroid when they didn't need it because as I have stated here before it causes other medical problems and sometimes they test higher than they should for other hormones such as Testosterone (remember the thyroid is a regulatory organ).

Bottom line is this, if you are giving a dog thyroid medication that doesn't need it you are cheating, plain and simple no different than voting on how it benefits your score as opposed to what is really in the tree. Plenty of people consider it playing the game because it makes them sleep better but it's still cheating.

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Old Post 04-21-2019 07:27 PM
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Richard Lambert
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quote:
Originally posted by Rip
........Bottom line is this, if you are giving a dog thyroid medication that doesn't need it ........


Therein lies the problem. Just what constitutes "need"? Some dogs "need" it to perform their best.

And I hope that I don't get banned when I start taking it. My T4 level was on the low end of "normal" so the Dr said that I needed it but I feel fine without it.

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Dave Richards
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Mr. Lambert

Oh my goodness, you of all people should know the difference! Dave

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Rip
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Therein lies the problem. Just what constitutes "need"? Some dogs "need" it to perform their best.

And I hope that I don't get banned when I start taking it. My T4 level was on the low end of "normal" so the Dr said that I needed it but I feel fine without it.



Medical need not performance need. Normal range is normal range. Above normal??? Then that is more than normal and is excess and is not needed.

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yadkintar
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Bruce people use meth because it makes them feel good. And they can go on for days and then some. Then their brain is tricked into thinking they have to have it and it takes more of it to maintain the same high. In reality it is destroying their immune system. Two kinds of thyroid genetic and man made either one can be passed down from one generation to the next.



Taking any medicine for long periods of time that your body donít need is harmful.


Tar

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nitehunter2004
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Is meth addiction passed down tru genetics?
If thyroid wasnít a problem 30 years ago how did people know that giving a normal dog thyroid pills would make a normal dog an athlete?

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Richard Lambert
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Mr Richards, I am just learning about all of this. I may be a little confused but what I have heard/read is that too little is not good and too much is not good. Each dog has a level at which they perform best. If you go above that, you are giving them too much and you can tell. So if you keep their level at their optimum which is in the normal range, then how are you "cheating" or harming them? If their pituitary or thyroid has a problem, you are just helping it out.

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Richard Lambert
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Taking any medicine for long periods of time that your body donít need is harmful.
Tar



Tarbaby, I thought we cleared that "need" thing up. And meth doesn't naturally occur in your body whereas thyroxine does. You are trying to compare an Apple to an Orange.

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Rip
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Richards, I am just learning about all of this. I may be a little confused but what I have heard/read is that too little is not good and too much is not good. Each dog has a level at which they perform best. If you go above that, you are giving them too much and you can tell. So if you keep their level at their optimum which is in the normal range, then how are you "cheating" or harming them? If their pituitary or thyroid has a problem, you are just helping it out.


You are trying to change your story. Now you are saying high normal.

Normal is normal whether it's high or low normal it's still normal and nobody ever said normal was cheating. Not one time LOL.

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Tim Green
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I was recently told that some breeders even start their 12 month old puppies on this junk to make potential buyers think they go harder. Now that is ridiculous if they are doing that.

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