Registered: Aug 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 1933

Who here valves a "brood" female and why.

I personally don't have valve for a brood female. I know there has been a lot of winners and reproducers come from brood females. But I never understood why some would breed a female that couldn't run and tree a coon. But bred her simply because of her bloodline.

I know some will hunt and train females. But never put them in the hunts. If I have a dog at my place they have to be able to run and tree there own coon not just run and tree with other dogs. And I will put them in the hunts. I valve the Ability of a dog more than just a Bloodline. Bloodline's never tree raccoons.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Monticello Indiana
Posts: 1327

All I keep is females and they are kinda like brood females cause they don’t get hunted 🤣

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: Western Pa
Posts: 2106

As much as people want to get into the scientific side of breeding (I do agree to some extent that it slightly increases your odds) breeding is still a crap shot. Two of my best hounds came from potlicking females. One was an accidental breeding. Were there good genes in the females involved? Most definitely. There are a few breeders out there that have had "good luck" in making calculated crosses. Yes, they generally crossed a female that was a "coondog" but they have also had their share of bum crosses when they figured they had a cross that was going to produce the next world champion. ie., two top notch bonifide winners. My advice...check your traits and characteristics, the weaknesses and strong points of both, the percentages on other proven crosses of similar lineage...and ROLL THE DICE!

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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: napoleon, ohio
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Agreed Randy

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: wyandotte,ok
Posts: 2114

when breeding it is all in the genetics of the animal do some crosses work no they don't. some of the females that are not titled my never have seen a hunt in there but does that mean they won't wont reproduce. Like Randy said roll the dice. Just like me with show hogs we breed our sow that won several jackpots and placed high at our county to a stud of a boar and every pig in that liter where absolute junk and went to the market sale. so it is a gamble on what you breed too.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

Whether or not the dog is put in a hunt doesn't change what the dog will reproduce.

Genes are genes, they don't change based on if the dog is hunted or not.

If by brood female you mean a female that has reproduced top notch hounds no matter what she is crossed with, that female has a ton of worth whether she hunts or not because she is a reproducer.

If you mean brood female in just any old female with a bloodline I like, well it would hold no value to me because I personally don't breed to a female that I wouldn't want a pup just like it.

What I said above is true, it doesn't change what they throw but you have a better chance of the dog having desirable genes to pass on if it hunts than if it hasn't been hunted and you just plain don't have a clue.

So for me, I won't breed anything that I wouldn't be satisfied with the pup turning out just like it.

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 1933

I agree with what you all are saying. My point is I see some people posting brood dogs for sale. Or I'm in the market for a brood female. She doesn't have to be a coondog. And I don't agree with that. Its enough bad dogs out here with from just what we think might make a good cross. Last thing we need is a more sorry dogs.

And I know the hunts don't make a dog reproduce. I just personally don't buy dogs just because of there bloodline or just because its a black and tan that I can raise pups from. If they can't run and tree there own coon. They don't stay here.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2154

I very much agree with what RIP and Randy posted above.

Re: RIP's post: That's almost to a word what I would say. I've always said the question to ask yourself is: "Would I be satisfied if every pup turned out exactly like the mother?" You should be able to answer YES to this question if you are breeding a female.

We'd have a shortage of dogs if everybody followed that philosophy and my other philosophy on breeding females. That is, if she produces what I like, I've got what I want and don't NEED more. If she doesn't produce what I like, I don't WANT more.

Re: Randy's post. Relating to scientific knowledge of genetics (see above). I think back to the Walker breeder, Dr. Richard A. Guill, a geneticist by trade (should qualify him as knowledgeable). Years back, I hunted with some of his stock---not bad, but nothing special either. And, I've seen people that were no where near as knowledgeable as him that could consistently produce better dogs than he did.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Kilkenny, MN
Posts: 893

You would think that supply and demand would weed out brood females. With as few hunters that we have right now and puppies to be found practically anywhere the need to breed just any ol female wouldn't exist. Finding puppies of the right kind should be the priority. There's no way I'd ever get a puppy if I didñt know and like how the female operated.

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: al
Posts: 739

The term brood female probably came round yrs ago when puppy farms were fairly common. I always thought of a brood female as a dog that always had a good litter of pups, plenty of milk and was a good mother. Being a good coon dog and having a good ped would be icing on the cake. ........ With that said titles look good but don't make a dog a reproducer. Some of the best crosses on paper turned up duds. To me a great dog is one that can do it in the woods and can reproduce his or her likeness or better. ..... I do think that with less puppies being bred now due to less coon hunters and places to coon hunt that the quality of pups available has improved. Many of these pups are quietly being bred by pleasure hunters for several generations.... As someone said the genes are the same if a dog hunts or not..

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 927

A lot of females, of outstanding blood lines, don't get hunted. A fellow gave me a 6 year old female out of Grnnitech Midnite Special, her mother was a Grnnite out of Set-emAce. I was starting to hunt her, she had not been hunted much at all, when the old guy said his brother, wanted her back. So i gave her back, once they had paid me the twenty dollar fee, i paid to put her in my name. But those well bred older females, 6 to 8 years of age can still make pretty good dogs, if hunted, people get in a hurry to raise a litter of pups, so the female, gets older, and she doesn't get the chance, to make a coon dog.

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J.B.

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Posts: 21

My old dog in the pen is 11 years old
And his mom didn't hunt but his dad
Hunted. Not every pup turns out.
There was 6 pups in the litter and the
People who got them was happy with
Them. I have seen alot of dogs in the
Pass that have good and bad nights.
I learned if you don't like the dog it
Won't get the chance you all Way's
Hunt your favorite. I might take the
Gamble on a female that breed right
And breed her if she don't hunt the way
I like might end up with a dandy one

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 927

I had a fellow tell me one time, that if it ain't a top dog, he don't bred it, i don't, know if he knows, what a top dog is, as i ain't never, hunted with one. And i bred and raised, a dog that placed 20th in one of ukc's world hunts, probably, still the most stay put, no pull, hound i've ever seen go. But i have not seen that perfect one, go yet, some are better, than others, but if every body's yard stick, which is the ukc hunts, was used correctly. These females, that have never been hunted, that are out of a Grnnitech male dog, and their mother was a nitech, should produce pretty good dogs, even tho, they themselves were never hunted. I won't breed a female unless she gets up there, and trees pretty good. And if she has the right stuff in her, even tho she ain't been out, i'll hunt her, and give her a chance to make something of her self, even if she's 8 years old. I hunt everything, that lives here, and they don't get to go as much as they should. And i'd rather have a female out of something, that made nitech or grnite ch, a few years ago, than, today, as they don't have 7 or 8 dogs in the whole hunt, these days.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Hawkeye State
Posts: 1317

I have seen a brood female reproduce at a high percentage,she would run and tree,probably one of the hardest tree dog I have followed,but she was inconsistent,and a little on the rattle headed side. She was bred by her owner twice,to his young stud dog.Her first litter had 4 pups,all made coon dogs,3 titled,before they were 3,one went to a hide hunter,and she was probably the best one in the litter. Second cross had 5 pups,two died early in life, one got ran over,one shot,the other three would tree coons but we're never hunted in the hunts. So that's 9 pups with 3 titled.I owned one from the first cross,he was bred twice,produced 20 pups 2 made grand,and those to are on the historical reproducers list,I also owned one from the second cross,he was on his way to becoming really nice,my job took me away from home,so I sold him to a local guy so he could get hunted right... So rolling the dice might not be for some but every once in a while it dosent hurt...

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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: KINGFIELD, MAINE
Posts: 481

Genes are a big factor but you can't blame a female that really has not been given a chance to shine. A lot of guys won't hunt a female because of heat cycles messing up their hunts thus a lot of females get put on the back burners when if pushed would be good hounds instead of just a brood gyp. Seen it happen alot

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

My version of a brood female is one that can tree a coon. Maybe she isn’t the best but still has the ability. Maybe this female excels in hunt or treeing or locating etc. She has to have something to add. Then what ever she is weak in, I try to over compensate that.
Many top hounds have came from brood females

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2843

When I started in the hunts in the 80's and early 90's you practically never drew a bnt female. Nobody wanted their coon dog to be a female because they wanted to hunt through hide season and they didn't want their hound to come into season at that time. We still had BNT's placing high and competing in the hunts even though breeders were using brood females. What has changed since then Fur market has dropped, UKC has TRL everything has been geared towards papers and titles. Folks want naturally straight pups with tree and would prefer not having those wild desire hunting gamey young dogs that have no quit. Though we have so much better training & tracking devices today to keep up with them and once they are treeing coon on a regular basis the equipment to break,train and handle them better. Which brings up another subject I once read, can't remember where or who wrote it where someone stated that the dog's of yesterday probably couldn't win or reproduce offspring today that could compete in the hunts today. That is probably very true on 80% of the frozen semen out there. But for the 20% that were producing winning coondog's before they will produce winning coondog's today. If they are not then you should reevaluate the female you are using!!

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Registered: Jan 2012
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Posts: 10

If the dam have the gene and it PASSES to the offspring you should have top offspring if hunted. If the dam DON'T have the gene chances are slim and none [hunted or not].

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Registered: Apr 2008
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Posts: 102

Having a female that works in the woods probably makes you feel better when it comes to breeding her. But the facts are until we catch up with other animal industries (equine , bovine, porcine, poultry) and start utilizing dna info we are just guessing. Most animal industries today have dna tests with the resulting markers indicating what traits those animals carry so you can breed according to the dna profile. We dna our coonhounds and the information that comes out of that test basically backs up parentage. Sure we are collecting gene markers also when we run the test but we have no idea what traits they indicate. Im sure we can measure things such as coat color ,length, ear length, foot and leg structure ect. Tracking , trailing and treeing ability are also things we can measure and select for according to dna specification but these are subjective traits meaning they are affected by opinion. Today we could probably use dna testing to modify phenotypes and change how hounds look.Subjective traits would be futher down the road and involve field collection of data of traits to select for. Until the hound industry decides to move to a system where we can collect information on the population and use dna testing, every breeding for performance traits will be rolling the dice. But then again maybe this is what the gambler in all of us lives for. JMO Jim McKenzie

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: North east Texas
Posts: 323

I would like to think if you breed a real coonhound to real deal of a coonhound that you would get a coon treeing hound,but it don't always work that way. I wish you could breed a good easy going levelheaded hound and get that,but that don't always work.

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