Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9189

16. Timeline for Questioning a Scoring Situation Related to a Written Rule.

• A scored situation may be questioned at any time prior to the scorecard being turned in to the Event Official, provided all handlers remain present when the situation occurred, and the question pertains to a written rule and not a judgement call that was made.



2019 UKC RULE PROPOSAL CLARIFICATIONS AND NOTES
Be advised, the following notes are the opinions/statements of those who submitted the proposals and may or may not necessarily reflect the opinion of UKC.

PROPOSAL 16: My reason for this...I have personally experienced and seen Hunting judges mis-apply points ,everyone hops in trucks and realize driving down road or at the next turn out that it was scored wrong.Well the way the rules are there is nothing you can do about it even though you know it was wrong and you can't make them put a question on the card.

This will give a little bit of a time to think especially on fast moving situations.Not everyone asks to see the scorecard before moving and trusts the judge to put it on the card correctly. Don't always happen that way.

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

For the record I am the one that proposed this rule.
Some where it got morphed into this current proposed writing.
My intended rule change wording I wanted to say "ANY TIME PRIOR TO THE NEXT RECASTING."
I see 19 no votes. Either these people are not understanding the reason for this proposal. I would really like to know their reasons.
Evidently these 19 have never been on the receiving end of a bad scoring situation because an ill informed inexperienced hunting judge . Or scored wrong on purpose.Hopefully you never are.

Some factual examples that could have been corrected but were not because of the way the current rule is written…..

4 dog cast.3dogs have just been scored on a tree and being led away. Dog 4 is struck and treed .Judge mistakenly writes the dog down for 1st strike . Handler finds out and refuses to allow judge to fix the mistake. Too late to question. This dog ends up winning cast.

4 dog cast 3 dogs are treed . 4th dog is split about 150 yards away. Before cast gets to first tree the 4th dog leaves its tree and goes to other 3. Judge never gave minus to this dog . Cast member did not know until cast was moving. Judge said a split tree was not called. Could not be questioned. Too late. This dog also ended up winning cast.

4 dog cast. All 4 struck but not until after dog one had treed. So Dog one is treed. Tree is closed.
Before cast gets to tree a second dog starts treeing with first dog. Other two are still trailing away.
At tree it is an obviously slick tree. Hunting Judge minus dog 1 on strike and tree but mistakenly only deletes trail of dog 2 when it should had also been minus on the tree.
Judge did not realize he scored incorrectly until back at truck .He told dog 2 handler. He adamantly would not allow the judge to award the tree and minus per rules. Once again guess who won this cast.

These were all scoring mistakes that because of current written rules could not legitimately be questioned or fixed without consent of the handler involved . It was the after thought that realized there was an error in the scoring of these situations.
All three of these factual situation mistakes were caught "PRIOR " to the next recasting.
Simple allowing of a question would had made it right .

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Last edited by Pat Bizich on 07-10-2019 at 06:09 AM

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: Miami, Ok
Posts: 384

Pat I see your point on why you wrote the proposal but you have to look at the other side of things. You're in a cast, Handler A is winning in the first 30 mins, there is a call made that could greatly effect the outcome but Handler A is cool with it because "it probably wont matter" at the end of the hunt Handler A gets beat and questions a call that happened an hour and a half before just to grasp straws to win.

Or another thing. One dog is still at large, after I handle mine and its at large I'm looking to get cut loose as fast as I can. I don't want to jack around with a question and stand there and argue with my dog on a lead for 10 mins when I should be cut.

All I can say is use qualified judges and/or be a qualified cast member that's aware of the situations even if you have to be the guy to ask to see the card constantly. We all make mistakes.

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Registered: Dec 2017
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Posts: 340

I have been in hunts before that in the beginning I was supposed to be the guide only. Meet with cast so they know where to go an I end up with score card because nobody wants to judge. I tell you this , I will score situations at the time they need to be scored. It’s foolish for a judge to let it build up til the end. Yes, a man has the right to cut his dog. A little time getting the card right makes things easier in the end. A person that can’t respect that is up to no good anyway.Take a minute an get things together before recast.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
Posts: 1042

Leave it the way it is.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: N.E. Arkansas
Posts: 1042

Leave it the way it is.

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Pine Hill Kennels
Loyd McIntire

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