Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

My wife and I made a 24 hr round trip to pick up three 9 week old pups...2 females and 1 male, all littermates...I went that far because I wanted some top of the line hog dog pups...the females are awesome looking and have lots of go to them...

The male pup...he is standoffish and acts like he don't care...guards the food bowl and hoards it to himself so I stand there and nudge him to behave...I am very careful with them because they are slightly skittish as if they didn't get much handling before I got them...I had a little trouble getting them to trust me but a few treats here and there and they are really coming around...this is the second week I've had them...

some of the thing I do with all pups is to test them in my yard so I can see what type of dog they will make...plus I test for natural ability on account I only want to breed the ones with natural ability...nothing less...

the problem...I scattered some boiled hog meat in the yard (small pieces), the females rolled out hard searching the wind currents and circling and then the male gets in and then he starts attacking his siblings and I interfered but did not want to damage the pup in any way so I was kind of easy on him...

the next day I scattered more hog tidbits and the females rolled out hard to hunt...the male pup came in right behind them and attacked...the female pups shut it down and he was searching and eating alone...I stepped in and the females went back but were really keeping their distance from the male...I was having trouble with myself on account this is one trait I can not tolerate...I wanted to jack slap that little sucker...
when I sit back and watch the puppies hunt I can envision how they will work one day and I am usually right...but this pup is clearly messing with the other pups mentality...

What I have seen in the past with these type of hog dogs is that once the hog is bayed some dogs will attack the other dogs and claim the hog for themselves and sometimes this happens before a big boar is totally shutdown...so the hog can rest and then be ready to run again...this creates much turmoil in a pack and I do not tolerate that behavior...worse yet these dogs can ruin young up and coming hog dog pups...

I see this pup as having the potential to be one of the worst yet on account I haven't seen this type of behavior in pups at this young age...

when I said this pup is standoffish and acts serious lot of the time...then I think about greatness...some of the very best dogs I have raised had traits similar to this but without the viciousness this pup is displaying...I don't care how good this pup will grow up to be if he is going to fight at the bay or be ruining other pups...the goal for me is to have a great hunting dog that has the right qualities to be a potential stud to care on the breeding program...right now I just need a good hunting dog even if he shouldn't be bred...I can move him on once I can replace him...the bloodline is awesome otherwise I wouldn't have made the trip...so can this pup be helped????

so what are the wise words WildWilly? others please chime in as well...thanks

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

I think if you re-read your post then you will find that you've answered your own question.
Standoffish before the dog trusts you is a sign of intelligence.

Bear hunters would neuter him and hunt him. They may offer better advice.

I'll never personally train another one. Two strikes and your out with me. The aggressive studs that I hunted with in the 70s are still producing their likeness 40 years later and their owners are in denial today just like they were 40 years ago.
Alpha aggression is dominate genetic trait and is not the same trait as being tough on game. Takes a minimum of two generations to eliminate from a bloodline.


If you are thinking about culling a dog, then you've already waited too long! A quote from Earl Lange Sr.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Use something other than food to test them. Is he fighting around anything other than food?

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quote:

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Originally posted by dbender
Food aggression isn't a good indicator of future aggression.You don't know how this litter was fed or raised up to this point. He might always be food aggressive( big deal).

Put this male in with non related pups and get rid of the food and see how he does. Litter mates squabbling that haven't established their pecking order isn't a good indicator of anything. I would squash a puppy if he guards the food or starts trouble. You don't have to hurt him (just make him think you are going to) he'll realize you could if you wanted to if he has any brains.
If he can't or won't take it I wouldn't waste time on him.
A grumpy hog dog is less than worthless.
He'll be your pal in time, he'll also know you are the boss.
I'm not sure how boiled bits of meat scattered around is any indicator how they are going to be when they grow up. I'd put them in a pen with a little bitty pig if I was to do anything with a 9 week old pup to assess future actions.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

I am teaching the pups to eat from the same bowl...the females have been good with it since day one...the male is getting better with a little persuasion...they really haven’t gone at it very much on pecking order at this time...

Here is the thing...I have raised quite a few litters in my back yard...my yard sits on two lots so I let the pups out to run and play once a day...been doing it this way for a little over 30 years...I scatter little bits of meat over a large area...and always some bits upwind so I get to observe which pups click to the wind currents right away and I then open the gate and free cast them to watch and see how they work...over all these years I haven’t had any pups whip it’s siblings to take them out of the game like he is doing...all other pups will circle and zero in on the wind currents and are only interested in finding the pieces of meat...

I would like to break him of this aggression if possible... because I need a good to great Hog dog...more than likely I will never breed him...but will concentrate on his sisters...

I have been correcting him and hoping I can change him enough without ruining him...I just want him to work well in a pack once he is old enough to run with the pack...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

I cast them out this morning and the females looked awesome...hunting hard and fast...
The male was a little timid and then slowly got in on it and did ok...no fighting at this time...yesterday I reached out and touched him with the red Ryder when he was acting up...so he is a little cautious right now...I’m bringing him into my house for extra attention and socialization...if he comes around enough he will have a home for a while...at some point in time it is likely he will be replaced by a young dog that has the right natural traits...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Location: Indiana
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Maybe he just smarter than you?

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Jacob Miller

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quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
I cast them out this morning and the females looked awesome...hunting hard and fast...
The male was a little timid and then slowly got in on it and did ok...no fighting at this time...yesterday I reached out and touched him with the red Ryder when he was acting up...so he is a little cautious right now...I’m bringing him into my house for extra attention and socialization...if he comes around enough he will have a home for a while...at some point in time it is likely he will be replaced by a young dog that has the right natural traits...

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Location: batsville ark
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quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
I cast them out this morning and the females looked awesome...hunting hard and fast...
The male was a little timid and then slowly got in on it and did ok...no fighting at this time...yesterday I reached out and touched him with the red Ryder when he was acting up...so he is a little cautious right now...I’m bringing him into my house for extra attention and socialization...if he comes around enough he will have a home for a while...at some point in time it is likely he will be replaced by a young dog that has the right natural traits...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

quote:

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Originally posted by N Williams
I would advise you not to shoot him with a BB gun, beat on him, or shock him. I can't reveal how to address this. I promise he's food aggressive and possibly shy. Shyness is the worst form of aggression to have. You must learn how to communicate with him in his language. Punishing dogs does not work like on humans. They don't understand and it can often make problems worse. I would call Willy. His methods are step by step so you will understand at the end what you just did. Remember dogs don't think like we do.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jul 2007
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If the pup doesn't trust you he will never give you 100% of his ability , I don't beat and shock dogs I spend the time with them belive it or not kids do a lot more for a pup in socialization skills then most adults my daughter would carry my pups everywhere from football games to anywhere else ' once the pup trusts you and believes you will do best by him or her then and only then will they give you 100% of there loyalty and then adjustments for doing wrong don't do permanent damage to the relationship , and he or she realizes you are the alpha , you can't beat a dog into submission and make then work t all takes repetition and time !! That's tha Magic wand good luck

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

Potomac...I agree, the best socializers for the pups are kids...

And I also agree on trust...the dog should be able to trust us completely...when they trust us we can correct them and they will not fear us even during correction because they understand we are focusing on the behavior issue and not on inflicting punishment on the dog...when we correct without the emotion called anger trust will go to a higher level...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

Update on pups...the aggression in the male is about gone... he growls a little at the food bowl once in a while but is minimal...other than that they hunt for treats well with each other...

The two females are bigger and built better for power and agility yet he is the boss...they hunt faster than him and do well... he hunts at a lope yet finds more treats...he hunts smarter by hunting into the wind and making swings from side to side...then he will loop back downwind and goes back into the wind at a different location...once he covers that he makes a big loop...also has a better nose...

Another issue was that they didn’t trust people...I had a little trouble with that but feeding a few treats from out of my pocket really changed them pretty quick when they figured out I had goodies for them...

I bring them inside the house now and then and he likes curling up next to me after he explores awhile...the females like exploring more than curling up for a nap in my lap while I watch TV...

Chances are he might make the better hunting dog...his name is Gator...the females don’t have one just yet...

The big issue that started this thread was Gators extremely bad aggression as an 8 week old pup...thanks on the pms and input this pup is doing very well...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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