Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
Posts: 1751

4 dog cast Dog A strikes for 1st strike the cast has seen about 4 different rabbits into the thicket Dog A has struck..Dog A goes into check B strikes about 50-70 yards to the right of the Dog A in the same thicket...the rest of the pack blows out with Dog B and Dog A goes to them..


How would you score that ? "it's at a big hunt"

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
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Shane Seaman, Josh Ware , Sam Zirkle lol please refrain.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Fresno Ohio
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Shawn, I would say it's going to be a judgment call and this is why.
1. If Dog A has struck in the thicket and as you say multiple rabbits came out and Dog A has not established which rabbit it is running and goes into a check, then Dog B strikes 50 yards away on one of those rabbits. I would not minus Dog A other than his check.
2. If Dog A had established which rabbit it was running and picked his head up and ran to Dog B (who has struck on another rabbit), I would minus his strike and check. Then have him strike back in.
That's why I would say you would have had to see it and most likely it would come to a vote. Unfortunately those votes when 3 are not struck in are highly unlikely to go in Dog A's favor.
Rule 4 (b) states "When it's visually evident by the majority of the cast or a non-hunting judge that dog(s) quits a trail that is being worked, will be minused."

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Registered: Jan 2009
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I agree with dave!

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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: Grafton, WV
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I would say the way you scored it was absolutely correct lol!!!

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Josh Ware

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
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I agree Josh...i'm just waiting for more input I wanna see how many different people would score this scenario....

Dave when it is "VISUALLY" evident...I think words like this need to be bold and italicized on the scorecard....it has to be VISUALLY EVIDENT visually evident is going to leave literaly 0% chance for doubt.....meaning you've seen what happened with your own eyes if you have to guess or imply as to what happened you can't say it's evident...but how many would to attempt to manipulate this situation to gain an advantage in a cast ?

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Fresno Ohio
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Guess I'll respectfully disagree with 0% Still think you would need to use good judgement. Just because a hound picks its head up and leaves 50 yards of track out doesn't mean it quit. Example 1
Dog A strikes and 1 rabbit comes out of the brush and runs down a path. Dog B running to Dog A hits the track 50 yards from the brush where Dog A struck and Dog A picks his head up and runs to Dog B who is hammering. Good judgement would never minus Dog A.
Example 2
Dog A strikes in brush and rabbit goes up the hill with Dog A coming out on the track. All of a sudden Dog B barks 50 yards down the hill away from where Dog A's rabbit went. Dog A picks his head up and leaves his track and goes to Dog B. Good judgement would be to minus Dog A.
In both examples Dog A picked his head up and ran 50 yards to Dog B. I think this is why Allen constantly says it's important for clubs/MOH to select good judges.

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
Posts: 1751

Here we go

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Registered: Jul 2003
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If zero percent would have attempted to minus dog a its strike for not producing or at least minus 50 for quitting a track (which hadnt even been established yet) and be re-struck then why did the handler even ask? It was smart of him to ask as a handler to be safe...but it served as a reminder that sometimes judges do try to create "gray areas" to gain an advantage in casts...lol I didnt even read your examples bc im not trying to create "what if scenarios" if it was not visually evident hound a quit an established track then hound a is not minused...I know people have been in casts where hound a is minused only bc the judge could gain an advantage.....which is completely ridiculous

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Newark, Ohio
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And that will FOREVER be the down fall of this format...that things of similar nature such as a state rep judging a cast and saying things like "if it was anyother hunt id let it go but since its nationals I have to scratch him" especially when it pertains to a jr handler (a kid!!!! ) being scratched from a cast for not catching his hound while it was running a rabbit by itself instead of helping that jr handler catch his hound....sounds to me like the state rep should have brought a better hound to nationals if he has to treat a nationals cast differently from any other hunt....but thats just me talking on a soap box...no dave not you I know you would have the decency to help a jr handler catch a dog running a rabbit in a cornfield on top of a steep hill...but appearantly some don't....just yet another fine example if whats driven me away from trialing...not enough emphasis on the quality of hound on the leash and too much emphasis on what the handler/hunting judge can do to win a cast. They say the person who holds the scorecard wins the cast for a reason...b/c it a lot of cases it's true...and yes I held a score card quite often and would consider myself an exception to that rule...but why whats the point when so many others hold true the said statement...

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Last edited by ohlinger on 07-15-2016 at 11:06 PM

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Fresno Ohio
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Nothings perfect but I understand. We need to go run before you head out.

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Registered: Sep 2007
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"-50 for quitting the track" ???

Don't see any part of the original scoring scenario that could lead to a -50 for dog A. A judge that would consider that obviously has a poor understanding of the rules and should not be judging yet.

The original scenario did not give any reference to a split track. Did not give any info that dog A even showed any direction of travel. The scenario did not provide info that would call for any minus points or "QUITTING TRACK" WARNING.

If a dog quits track it minuses its strike points and then must be struck back in at next available position if it goes back in. It is not written in the rules, but when a judge minuses a dog for quitting track the handler must be told so that they can strike back in when the dog strikes back in. If it is not visually evident the dog quit a track it must be questioned immediately.

The distance they are apart is less important than if the dogs are evidently running two different rabbits in different directions. The original scenario does not provide enough info to establish that.

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Registered: Jul 2003
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Clear as mud Dan

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