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I was not trying to disrespect any ones nite champ, I have also had great Nt Champs. My point was in the low population areas Nite champ degrees are very easy to come by. I read the back of CB and see alot of hunts that host only 10 dogs, a couple casts, and even many one cast hunts. I think there are alot of dogs carrying that degree that don't deserve, and I truly wish the days of the 30-40 dog club hunts would come back. The nt Ch. degree used to carry alot more respect than it does now at least where hunt numbers are low.

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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2834

quote:

---

Originally posted by ml2543
Maybe change the HTX Degree where you have to complete 3 hunt tests to get the HTX degree.

---

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I personally think the list are fine just the way they are..I would like to see one more category added for all time historical reproducers.

And in the top Perf Sire and Dams,, I would like to see the top 10 perf dogs of each breed posted.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

---

Originally posted by kycooner1
I personally think the list are fine just the way they are..I would like to see one more category added for all time historical reproducers.

And in the top Perf Sire and Dams,, I would like to see the top 10 perf dogs of each breed posted.

---

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Southwest Missouri
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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Tekamah,Neb.
Posts: 1196

quote:

---

Originally posted by truly
All pups should be considered for the percentages. A pup that isn't even impressive enough to get you to send in the $20 that it takes to permanently register it is a FAIL. It should be counted as a fail. If you get your pup raised up, permanently registered, and it never does tree a coon despite many nights of hunting and exposure to coon, it should be considered a FAIL and counted into the percentages as such. If you have your dog registered, trained, and enter it in hunts and it can win enough casts to earn NtCh degree then that is great, but to not count all of the dogs that were culled before they were even registered, is to be in total denial of the FAIL rate of any given breeding.
Different studs have different likelyhood of getting their pups into the "right" hands. But if you look at a stud that has reproduced over 100 pups, even if those pups didn't get to the "right" people, the "right" people would be hearing about those pups [word travels even among pleasure/hide hunters] and would be buying them, or breeding their females to that stud. So even a stud that has a hard time getting their pups out there at first, if they are any good, they will eventually get there.
With the stud that I promoted that made the list [Credit River Tucker] even though we live outside the "mainstream" of the coon hunting world, and we weren't able to break into the market selling pups into the comp world, enough of his pups still turned out, that he was able to maintain a solid percentage.

---

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Folks I'm really gonna turn some heads on this response but here goes. For me, a male dog would need to be at or very near 25% for me to give him special consideration for a mating. But there you go, I don't put much emphasis on these reproducing percentage numbers. I would want to know how they hunt, strike, trail, tree and behave at the tree before I even look at the reproducers list.

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Location: Northern California
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What I'm waiting for is for UKC to come up with a Reproducers list for dogs and bitches that have had less than 100 or 20 pups. So we can see the true Reporducres. Those country coondogs that were bred twice, and out of 17 pups, 12 that went on to get titles. I think if a breeding/sire/dam can't turn out at LEAST 60% good pups, then maybe they shouldn't be bred. You can cry numbers all you want, and how there's no way a dog with 1-5k pups can make 60%, well, maybe that dog shouldn't be bred, or maybe someone should have been more selective at what they let get backed up to that dog. I hear how a lot of pups go to people that will never nite hunt them. I say this, maybe people should be more selective of where pups go, and I bet 90% of the people buying these pups out of the flavor of the month studdog are looking for there next nite hunt prospect, but the reality is they just don't make the grade! I don't go getting pups out of hot ticket studs to make my next country coondog, I get them for my next comp dog, even then 70% are to ignorant to even be worth a bullet. Because 10% is something to be proud of!

You can sure see the difference in worlds, from the east and the west. Money in hand, verses game in tree.

I love how just because a dog has a GRNITECH title, it's worthy of being bred. I don't care WHO it's Parents were. Every dog should be bred on it own merit.

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Registered: Feb 2006
Location: MO
Posts: 775

I laugh most of the reproducer lists. I havn't looked at the list in close to two years probably, but I have a feeling I know some who owns the top studs. Most just pump up the %.

Who are the 1 Top reproducers of Englsih, Bluetick and TW if someone doesn't mind to post real quick. Owners names please

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: indiana
Posts: 6613

I think the list is fine...it makes people or should make them more responsible to know where the pups are & what they are doing...if that pup is special then you should know about it..if it is that good you should help title it if the owner dont...but getting the good bred dogs to the right people is the key...you have to breed resposible & followup//idealy you could breed a litter..send em all out to a pro pup starter & then sell them...but that would not be fair to the rest of the breeders ##s..same as pro handlers being the only people to tiltle most every dog.

that brings up the fact...numbers dont lie..but liars make numbers...

*****.if we go off avg..then the avg guy should be able to afford to buy...start..train & compete with it and win...****

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: illinois
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Rocketman 55, I will have to agree with you. Those lists are just a tool, not the be-all, end-all.

If your using these to not get out and do the leg work, you probably wont be satisfied with the results. jmo.

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: Dearborn,Missouri
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Of course not. The HTX is not a title. Even UKC will tell you HTX is not a title.

---

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: indiana
Posts: 6613

Lets get serious here...you can kid your friends & Ill kid mine but lets not kid each other...Would you breed to a" htx titled "only dog? Or does the list & nt ch or grand nt ch come more in to play?

An old man told me yrs ago & dog that cant conform as in hocked flat footed.short eared,too tall,ect should never make grand nite & a dog that cant hunt should never make grand show...that would be a better htx...conform & perform..we should not expect less..

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NT CH. CH. PR NEON RED FIRM FANNY -(gr.nt.ch grch Hard Rock/ntch snakeden hollow Jane)

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NT CH SH CH pr 3D

NTCH PR Rocky Top Neon Red Cayenne-grntch peels burning pepper/dykes tn. red autumn

NTCH pr Mosquito Creek Faith-grntch squeller/mosquito creek red rose


NTCH pr Neon Red Barnyard Hot Tody....grntch harry x grntch toadie

NTCH pr Peels Neon Red Nuclear Pepper


Neon Red Stump...Grntch barnyard horse Harry x Ntch rockytop neon red Cayenne

Neon Red Blood ...grntch barnyard gun

Neon Red Doc Tody...ntch yellow river doc x ntch neon red hot tody

Newby...ntch 3D x Ntch rockytop neon red Cayenne

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Registered: Oct 2008
Location: Dearborn,Missouri
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I'd Breed to a dog if it didnt have a title at ALL.....I Look for COONHOUNDS not TITLES!!!!!!

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Home of Previous #1 Reproducing English Coonhound 15.49%
GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' Briar Valley Nite Prowler "semen stored”
GRNTCH CH Dee's Nite Prowling Blitz "semen stored”
'PR' Northridge JoJoe's Blue Thunder
'PR' Northridge Icky’s Old Sandy

ENGLISH HOUNDS SINCE 1969....If you breed for papers instead of traits,You deserve what you end up with...Kelley Stagner

RIP........................................
GRNTCH GRCH Briar Valley Nite Prowler
GRNTCH GRCH Wilcox's Thunder JoJoe
GRNTCH GRCH Northridge Red Loopy
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todd kellam
UKC Moderator

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 4233


As long as we keep the HTX certification meaningful, it will have a value in today's world of coonhounds. A pass rate of 33% tells me it's being done honestly. I would not be embarrassed to fail one as some factors are beyond you or your dog's control. It doesn't necessarily mean the dog is faulty, just that it didn't pass that night. Who hasn't had a bad night hunting?


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Todd Kellam invented these hunt tests and even he refers to it as a certificate.

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Registered: Oct 2008
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
todd kellam
UKC Moderator

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Kalamazoo, Mich.
Posts: 4233


As long as we keep the HTX certification meaningful, it will have a value in today's world of coonhounds. A pass rate of 33% tells me it's being done honestly. I would not be embarrassed to fail one as some factors are beyond you or your dog's control. It doesn't necessarily mean the dog is faulty, just that it didn't pass that night. Who hasn't had a bad night hunting?

WHERE DOES THIS SAY THE HTX IS NOT A TITLE?


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If we're not suppose to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?





Todd Kellam invented these hunt tests and even he refers to it as a certificate.

---

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PLATTE RIVER ENGLISH
M.D. Jameson
816-807-1580
Home of Previous #1 Reproducing English Coonhound 15.49%
GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' Briar Valley Nite Prowler "semen stored”
GRNTCH CH Dee's Nite Prowling Blitz "semen stored”
'PR' Northridge JoJoe's Blue Thunder
'PR' Northridge Icky’s Old Sandy

ENGLISH HOUNDS SINCE 1969....If you breed for papers instead of traits,You deserve what you end up with...Kelley Stagner

RIP........................................
GRNTCH GRCH Briar Valley Nite Prowler
GRNTCH GRCH Wilcox's Thunder JoJoe
GRNTCH GRCH Northridge Red Loopy
GRNTCH GRCH Northridge JoJo's Feebie
GRNTCH CH Dee's Nite Prowling Blitz
GRNTCH CH Northridge Jo Joe’s Icky

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Ohhh Lordy here we go....Mr. Todd kellam, is the HTX a title or not??

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Registered: Sep 2010
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It is what it is. I wasn't looking to get all hung up on terminology.
The toughest thing about making an HTX dog is finding an HTX hunt to go to. I can find more AKC hunts than HTX tests.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: indiana
Posts: 6613

JB Pitcrew...please post your dogs listed 3 gen ped?

I may be wrong here in this case...but usually the guy that makes that claim has a different set of papers than his talk reflects...not trying to demean you personally but it is almost always the case that men breed to titles more than they claim...& those that dont are getting alot of dogs on the repo list...I have not seen a pr or htx on the repo list? Correct me if I am wrong..

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Neon Red Kennels-You pick the woods, red will pick the tree.

**We can START your puppy**

The natural quick starters make us all look good while others require a little more patience and effort. Whatever it takes to get your pup started, that's what I'm gonna do.

Call for reservations or references.
574-709-9205
Camden Indiana

Mark-thanks for the ZEPPS


NT CH. CH. PR NEON RED FIRM FANNY -(gr.nt.ch grch Hard Rock/ntch snakeden hollow Jane)

NT CH PR COLLINS NEON RED DOC DA QUEENY -grch ntch desperado/queen

NT CH SH CH pr 3D

NTCH PR Rocky Top Neon Red Cayenne-grntch peels burning pepper/dykes tn. red autumn

NTCH pr Mosquito Creek Faith-grntch squeller/mosquito creek red rose


NTCH pr Neon Red Barnyard Hot Tody....grntch harry x grntch toadie

NTCH pr Peels Neon Red Nuclear Pepper


Neon Red Stump...Grntch barnyard horse Harry x Ntch rockytop neon red Cayenne

Neon Red Blood ...grntch barnyard gun

Neon Red Doc Tody...ntch yellow river doc x ntch neon red hot tody

Newby...ntch 3D x Ntch rockytop neon red Cayenne

Last edited by tylerman on 01-21-2011 at 05:14 PM

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
It is what it is. I wasn't looking to get all hung up on terminology.
The toughest thing about making an HTX dog is finding an HTX hunt to go to. I can find more AKC hunts than HTX tests.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
It is what it is. I wasn't looking to get all hung up on terminology.
The toughest thing about making an HTX dog is finding an HTX hunt to go to. I can find more AKC hunts than HTX tests.

---

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I wish that UKC would include all dogs with in the Historical List. Not just dogs that are under 25 years old. The reason being to compare if you are planning on AI seman or direct descandants.

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Why is the reasoning for 25 years or less for historical. Lipper is one of the top walker names of past and present and his name can't appear because of age. Don't care to me but sure don't make any sense.

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Sackett Jr. was born in 1990 so in a few years he will be removed as well. Historical is historical does not make sense to me.

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Registered: Jun 2010
Location: SE Ohio
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Ben Crocker
Why is the reasoning for 25 years or less for historical. Lipper is one of the top walker names of past and present and his name can't appear because of age. Don't care to me but sure don't make any sense.

---

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Location: Michigan
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quote:

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Originally posted by Travis Eastman
Sackett Jr. was born in 1990 so in a few years he will be removed as well. Historical is historical does not make sense to me.

---

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