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Larry D Walker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

FAMOUS AMOS x MILLERS RED BETSY

Looking for something line bred or with a lot of Amos and Betsy.

I think they were crossed more than once,

And I am pretty sure betsy was bred to Timber Jack atleast once.

Looking for this blood as much and as close up as possible.

Thanks Larry

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03-24-2013 03:56 AM

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Hoosier Outlaw
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Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4281

Larry, Billy the Kid is as close as you will find to that blood. Hid dad is Amos' Burning Ben who was out of Amos and Betsy.
Moonlight Kate was a grand daughter to Billy on the bottom side and her dad was a half brother to Billy also being out of Amos' Burning Ben....making Kate one of the closest linebred descendants of the cross between Amos and Betsy.
So actually a dog out of Kate would probably be as close as you will get without going through Billy. Aftershock is out of Kate and the same daddy as Stillwater Chase....

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Hoosier Outlaw / Moonlight Redbones
1994 American Redbone Coonhound Association Hunter of the Year
My first 3 redbones raised from pup's were:
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Billy the Kid
Dual Gr.Ch.- PKC Ch. Outlaw Timber Girl
Dual Gr.Ch. Outlaw Scarlett Fever
(((( Current Favorites ))))
2013 AKC Ladies World Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch.- PKC Ch- AKC Ladies World Ch Ky Moonlight Breanna
Gr.Nt.Ch. - PKC Ch. Ky Moonlight Woody
Dual Grand Moonlight Deana
Dual Grand Ch.- PKC Ch. Moonlight AfterShock
Dual Grand Nighty Night Amber
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Big Time Britt
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Billy Jean
Gr.Nt.Ch-PKC Ch.-2015 PKC Red Days Champ Outlaw Cherry Bomb
Gr.Nt.Ch Outlaw Breeze
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man (over $20.000 won in PKC & CHKC) 2019 Southern Redbone Days Overall Champion
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Mac
Gr.Nt.Ch. Classy Cali (Heavy Outlaw bred)
Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Cat Scratch Fever
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Gr.Nt.Ch. Moonlight Banshee
"Always outnumbered...Never outgunned!"
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mmarshall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

Every dog on are team is loaded with it

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favorits ive hunted and or owned
grnt nighty nite moonlight kate rip
grnt moonlight pepper ann
Grnt jackpot Jackie rip
grnt rocky top jet
ntch moonlight katie rip
ntch moonlight madona
ntch beaver creek blaze rip
ntch moonlights dirty danny b.rip (ntch moonlight kink x ntch sawblade reckon)
Current
Grnt moonlight ky Kate (grnt ranger x grnt moonlight Kate
Ntch Pr beaver creeks easy peezy three 1st place wins (jet x moonlight Bree)
Pr beaver creeks moonlight coon buster ( moonlight shock x moonlight Bree)

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Larry D Walker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

Betsy

Do yall know if betsy was crossed to any other males,

And did Betsy and timber Jack reproduce

Was there any other titled dogs off the cross that produced Ben

How Many times was Amos and Betsy crossed.

Does anyone have a offspring report on Betsy

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Larry D Walker

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03-24-2013 05:58 AM

Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4281

Re: FAMOUS AMOS x MILLERS RED BETSY

quote:
Originally posted by Larry D Walker
Looking for something line bred or with a lot of Amos and Betsy.

I think they were crossed more than once,

And I am pretty sure betsy was bred to Timber Jack atleast once.

Looking for this blood as much and as close up as possible.

Thanks Larry

If I remember right, Danny M told me that Amos x Betsy cross was made twice and Ben was from the first and a nt.ch. named Shabel's famous Apache Red was out of the 2nd cross. Danny knows alot about that breeding and might be able to answer your questions as well as anyone.

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03-24-2013 06:04 AM

Hoosier Outlaw
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Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4281

Danny told me Ben and Apache Red were the only 2 titled dogs from the amos x betsy cross. I asked him because it was a repeat cross and I wondered if the 2nd cross was as good or better than the first.

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03-24-2013 06:07 AM

mmarshall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

Don't know Larry was told along time ago that was a good place to find the go power and pokey bill you and we have a lot of it
I'm shore there is other sources but those are the two I was told years ago

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03-24-2013 06:08 AM

Hoosier Outlaw
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2010
Location: Marion, Indiana
Posts: 4281

I don't remember hearing anything about any dogs out of Timber Jack and Betsy. If there were some that cross might not have worked very well. My Timber Girl Dog was out of Timber Jack and Outlaw Jessie and I was pretty good friends with Allan Hallada and Bill Wallock and we talked alot about T.J. pups that were making it but don't remember hearing about any from Betsy. Two of the biggest winning redbones in the early 90's were out of Timber Jack
....Girl was one, and Too the Maxx was the other one.

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03-24-2013 06:19 AM

Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

K.C. Churchhill's Gr Nt Ch Jackhammer was out of Timber Jack and Bill's Red Kate who was out of Hennings Chief. So Bill's Red Kate was bred the same as Betsy.

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03-24-2013 03:53 PM

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mmarshall
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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
K.C. Churchhill's Gr Nt Ch Jackhammer was out of Timber Jack and Bill's Red Kate who was out of Hennings Chief. So Bill's Red Kate was bred the same as Betsy.

Betsy was off ace

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03-24-2013 04:09 PM

Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
Betsy was off ace

So was Chief, how about "almost the same as".

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03-24-2013 04:27 PM

Larry D Walker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

Betsy x TJ

I was thinking that flint creek hustlin pinky was off tj and betsy but not sure of that,

If I remember right Ol Ann rebel's momma showed that cross two times and amos and betsy 3 times. But it ha sbeen a while and I might be wrong.

I really would like to find a female loaded up like that to breed back into rebel,

Mark that is kind of the plan if I can find it to line breed that pokey bill and line breed to amos and betsy

Then the out cross will be those 2.

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Indiana

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03-24-2013 04:55 PM

mmarshall
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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

Bree x billy Shane's cherry bomb dutchs macie my grace females would be loaded with it 8000 acre blocks on a bad night isn't big enuf for grace
Billy x ky Kate also two in Kentucky one in mich loaded with it think there all males just starting mine
Shock x Bree future cross
Shock x ky Kate just born
Shock don't have 100 pups but when he does people will be shocked at his numbers
Saline river ratt and hustlin doc is bred a lot alike using litter mates pinky I think was bred also the same with litter mates using three brothers
I tryed to get Ann ped off mike weeks ago as I've said rebel is on my radar

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03-24-2013 05:43 PM

Larry D Walker
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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

Grace

What is she off of????????

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Larry D Walker

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03-24-2013 05:47 PM

Larry D Walker
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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

I found, it here is part of it

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03-24-2013 05:53 PM

mmarshall
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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

Rebel and Kate from the one night I hunted with rebel they have a lot of the same traits strike hunt no disrespect Kate was louder and harder tree dog
Also like rebel she struggled down south at first but once she figured out that thin coon game she was just as good

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03-24-2013 05:57 PM

mmarshall
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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

Re: Grace

quote:
Originally posted by Larry D Walker
What is she off of????????

Billy the kid x Bree

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03-24-2013 05:59 PM

Preston Owens
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Registered: May 2009
Location: Grant County AR
Posts: 1279

Re: I found, it here is part of it

quote:
Originally posted by Larry D Walker

What does the capitol "D" stand for at the end of Betsy's UKC # stand for??

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Larry D Walker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

IF SHE WAS LOUDER AND TREE HARDER

She had to be a power house tree dog, cause he was one of the loudest hardest tree dogs I have ever been in the woods with,

Not questioning you just saying she must have been a monstre of a treedog, I would say rebel was 110 to 130 bpm and could here him for 2 mile. and I have 40% loss of hearing in both ears.

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Larry D Walker

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03-24-2013 06:02 PM

Larry D Walker
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Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

Here is some more on ann

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03-24-2013 06:07 PM

mmarshall
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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

Me larry salmons and lee Logan sat one night and counted she barked between 125 and 120 barks a min every min for 10 strait min Larry said thats a true 120 a min tree dog was asked more then once to shut her up at the tree when shining lol

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03-24-2013 06:18 PM

Larry D Walker
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

Hey Mark

You ever know a man in illinois by the name of Miller, I think maybe Donnie Miller,

He told me he had at one time been involved with this line of dogs, and had hunted Amos, Ben a dog called ox the fox who was off Amos and Millers natural duck who is also in anns ped,

Just curious if you knew of him, he hunted them alot and seem to know alot about the breeding and hunt style of all of them.

I think he told me that they had bred Betsy to the dog he called ox the fox but I cant find anything on that blood.

I really didnt like what he had to say about Ben,

I think Leeman Moyer had the Duck Dog, he also spoke of a dog called Wizard of Oz I think he said he was a littermate to Ben.

He spoke of a dog called buster brown, I think he said he was off Amos, I would like to find some of this blood, do you know anything about these dogs.

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Larry D Walker

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03-24-2013 06:18 PM

Larry D Walker
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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

Thats a tree dog For Sure!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by mmarshall
Me larry salmons and lee Logan sat one night and counted she barked between 125 and 120 barks a min every min for 10 strait min Larry said thats a true 120 a min tree dog was asked more then once to shut her up at the tree when shining lol

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Larry D Walker

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03-24-2013 06:20 PM

mmarshall
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Registered: Oct 2012
Location: east ohio
Posts: 1277

No never heard of them that I can remember
Ben strike dog wide open track dog hard hunter skunk and grinner killer not a natural tree minded dog crossed good on tree minded females
Of all the story's that's what I got on Ben

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03-24-2013 06:36 PM

chuck west
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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 10675

Re: Re: I found, it here is part of it

quote:
Originally posted by Preston Owens
What does the capitol "D" stand for at the end of Betsy's UKC # stand for??

Mr. Owens the -D usally stood for duplicate papers back years ago ,I lost my dogs papers once got new ones and the number was the same just -D behind it. If you look at the female your talking about she has an E in front of her number that designates she was coming from a single registered strain of dogs, if I'm looking at it right a female out her also had an E. Back then it is the same as now it takes 3 generations of known parentage to have "PR" status and lose the E reg number.

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